half-dead circuit


  #1  
Old 11-07-03, 09:39 AM
gludwick
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half-dead circuit

I'm fairly knowledgeable about electricity, but this one's got me stumped.

Went to turn on a light on a ceiling fan in the bedroom. When I did (via pull chain on fan), the fan and all but two of the outlets in the bedroom went dead.
Two outlets on one wall, including one that appears to be the "end" outlet (no wires leaving) are live. Wall switches and the other 5 outlets have no juice anywhere.

I have removed the ceiling fan from the ciruit and spliced the blacks and whites back together (also a single red wire from the switch which I spliced in with the blacks on both the fan and the switch ends.)

There are two bedrooms on the circuit. Everything in the second bedroom is fine and I'm guessing that the two live outlets in the first bedroom are on a line from bedroom 2. There are no GFI in the circuit; the breaker appears to be doing its job. I have even removed most of the switches and outlets in the bedroom from the circuit - again by splicing the black and white wires back together - Nada!

Having two rooms on the circuit, I'm not sure where power enters the circuit and how the the outets and switches are chained. I'm probably missing something obvious here, and my head is starting to swim, so any suggestions on troubleshooting this situation would be greatly appreciated.
 
  #2  
Old 11-07-03, 10:39 AM
Rlfrazee
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Gludwick put all wires back the way they were originally. Do not leave the red wire spliced with the blacks. Get a receptacle tester and voltage tester. Plug receptacle tester into non-operating outlets and post back with results. Take a few voltage readings between black and white and black and equipment ground at switch and fan fixture tell us between what wires you have voltage or no voltage at all.....RL
 
  #3  
Old 11-07-03, 02:22 PM
gludwick
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Originally posted by Rlfrazee
Gludwick put all wires back the way they were originally. Do not leave the red wire spliced with the blacks. Get a receptacle tester and voltage tester. Plug receptacle tester into non-operating outlets and post back with results. Take a few voltage readings between black and white and black and equipment ground at switch and fan fixture tell us between what wires you have voltage or no voltage at all.....RL
There is no voltage...at the switch, at the fan or at any of the outlets except the two I mentioned. I have checked all switches and outlets with neon tester and VOM...nothing there.
It's almost like the circuit breaker had tripped...but it hasn't...and everything in the 2nd bedroom is "on".

Gary
 
  #4  
Old 11-07-03, 03:16 PM
Rlfrazee
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Gary have you checked black wire to equipment ground? If you have open neutral (white wire) then black to white will show no voltage but black wire will still be hot. This is because no return path to ground so will show no voltage with a neon tester. If you have access to tic tester this will show voltage if present even with white wire open. A receptacle tester will also tell us this. Since you have lost power at outlets then you say breaker is ok and no gfci in circuit I am suspect you have open neutral need find this out. If no voltage on black wire then we will have open hot and will be closer to solution. Also find out what is on this circuit and if open hot or open neutral you pretty much have to start at the point where you find voltage on this circuit and start opening things up looking for bad connection or wire that has come loose from wirenut working your way towards dead part of circuit..... rl
 

Last edited by Rlfrazee; 11-07-03 at 04:41 PM.
  #5  
Old 11-08-03, 05:52 AM
gludwick
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Receptacle tester shows no lights - open hot.
Not sure what a tic tester is, but I have one of those gadgets that looks like a pen that you can hold near a switch or receptacle; press a button; and if the led stays lit you have hot AC in close proximity.
It does not register any voltage at wall switch.

Gary
 
  #6  
Old 11-08-03, 11:04 AM
Rlfrazee
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Gary now we now you have a black wire that has come apart or other problem with black wire. Rereading your original post you say two outlets with one being end of run are still live on this circuit in bedroom with dead outlets. Wonder if you have bad connection in junction box? Attic maybe? Basement maybe? Depends on house. Usually one finds outlet with power on problem circuit closest to panel box then works toward dead portion until finding no power. Easy said but not easy done sometimes. Think you will agree that turning light on, problem is not at light since wouldnt cause outlets to go dead. You dont have something obvious because you have looked in the obvious places plus you have good understanding of electrical. They make expensive wire tracers but they also have limitations. No easy way to find problem just continue to look in all electrical boxes you think are involved with this circuit for fault with black wire......RL
 
  #7  
Old 11-08-03, 12:18 PM
gludwick
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Found it!

Started running continuity checks on the black wires between outlets. Lucked out and found the break on the 2nd check...between one of the live outlets and the next dead one in line.

Have no idea what happened to the black wire...the break has happened somewhere up in the wall between outlets. No attic or basement...and this is on the 2nd floor. So I removed the baseboard and cut a new channel between the outlets in the wallboard with my rotozip; drilled thru intervening studs, and ran a new cable between the 2 outlets.

Problem solved and everything now working. Thanks much for the help and getting my head thinking in the right direction!!

Gary
 
  #8  
Old 11-08-03, 12:48 PM
Rlfrazee
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Glad to help and pat yourself on the back for being persistant and using good troubleshooting methods.....RL
 
 

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