rough-in question


  #1  
Old 11-26-03, 01:23 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Itasca, Illinios
Posts: 16
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
rough-in question

I live in Illinios and code requires that i use conduit. Is it wrong to pull 12/3 cable (romex) thru it or does it have to separate conductors? also which would you use if you had to pull separate conductors solid or stranded? The runs are generally 12-16' long to the sub-panel. thx
 
  #2  
Old 11-26-03, 01:52 PM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,262
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
What are you roughing in? Conduit for branch circuits??? Is this residential?
Sounds like you may have gotten some misinformation. I can't say I know Ill. codes but something doesn't sound right.


If this is correct, for such short runs and for ease of device makeup I'd run #12 solid THHN. For longer runs with several 90's I'd go stranded.
You cannot run romex or any cable assembly through conduit.
 
  #3  
Old 11-26-03, 02:48 PM
A
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Itasca, Illinios
Posts: 16
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Thank for your help. Running new electric in our 2nd story addition. thanks again.
 
  #4  
Old 11-26-03, 04:57 PM
rob1kva
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
Hey I was told by an instructor along time ago that all wiring in Illinois has been in pipe since the great Chicago fire{you know the one Mrs. O'Leary's cow started} is this true?? Hope you don't mind me throwing this question on to your thread.
 
  #5  
Old 11-26-03, 05:14 PM
scott e.'s Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Anderson, IN
Posts: 385
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I don't know about all of Illinois, but the Chicago area is definitely conduit required. I would pull solid where possible (stranded is easier to pull, but harder to land on outlets).
 
  #6  
Old 11-26-03, 05:29 PM
rob1kva
Visiting Guest
Posts: n/a
The trick with stranded wire {if you don't use Stacons} is to twist the wire in the opposite direction{right to left} that it is normally twisted. This way when you terminate around a screw the strands will not fray around the screw.
 
  #7  
Old 11-26-03, 05:37 PM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,262
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Conduit for everything?!! What, the rest of the country doesn't have the fire risk Chi town has?
Man, that alone would make me have to move.
 
  #8  
Old 11-26-03, 06:07 PM
HandyRon's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: New York
Posts: 1,287
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Prior to NYC adopting an amended version of the 1999 NEC in 2003, all circuits had to be in metalic raceway or metalic cable.

Back to the original question, you may install a Romex Cable (NM Cable) in raceway for protection. It is too hard to use it for general purpose, since you must account for conduit fill calculations using the widest dimention as the diameter of an equivelent round conductor. Since NM is not permitted in Chicago, you couldn't use the argument that you want to install it in conduit for protection.

So, since it is a short run, go with solid THHN conductors. Have you considered AC cable or MC cable? Depending on the application, it may be permitted and easier to run.
 
  #9  
Old 11-26-03, 06:32 PM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,262
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
NYC has been BX/MC almost forever. Having been away from there for a while now I did not know they changed their code.

NM may be sleeved in conduit sections, but not insatlled in a finished conduit run.
 
  #10  
Old 11-27-03, 07:44 AM
M
Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Illinios
Posts: 242
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
As a Chicago Supervising Electrician most of the towns within 50 miles of Chicago require wiring to be within conduit. Don't put NM wiring in the conduit use individual THHN wires. Nice thing about conduit is later on if you need to upgrade the wiring say for a window A/C it's apeice of cake to just add a couple more wires to the existing pipe.

As an aside how come until the last NEC revision NM cable was ok for any building up to 4 floors but after that was unsafe and wiring had to be in condiut?
 
  #11  
Old 11-27-03, 09:03 AM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,262
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Are we talking bx, mc, ac, etc., or actual pipe (tubing)?

How is it running branch circuit receptacles in a framed house? Must be hell.


I've done miles of pipe work but the thought of doing a framed home in conduit doesn't appeal to me at all.
 
  #12  
Old 11-27-03, 10:26 AM
M
Member
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Illinios
Posts: 242
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
EMT is what I'm refering to. Roughing a house in it is pretty easy when your set up for it. A good electrician can put in 700 feet a day.
 
  #13  
Old 11-28-03, 11:55 AM
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 317
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I agree with Mike, pipe makes remodeling a breeze if you need extra circuits all you gotta do is pull 'em in no fishing walls just to add a wire for a ceiling fan.

Roughing isn't too bad either still gotta drill holes pipe or romex pipe requires less strapping. Conduit also provides a continuous ground (if installed correctly) And there are alot of questions on this forum about adding grounded receptacles to existing circuits, This is only a problem in a house wired with romex that has no ground.
 
  #14  
Old 11-28-03, 01:43 PM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,262
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I'll deal with fishing a few lines to add circuits.
No way I'd want to rough a whole house in conduit!





How long does a typical house take you guys to rough?
 
  #15  
Old 11-28-03, 07:18 PM
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 317
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
I did my 2100 sq' trilevel in 4 days with 2 journeymen and my wife nailing boxes. W pulled wire on the 5th and 6th day and it was rough inspected on the 7th day. we worked long days but we also did ALOT of drinkin and B.S.'n I still had some small things to tie up but all in all it went good. Might have helped that I got alot of pipe in the basement slab as well.

New construction I will usually talk people out of romex I do use it for remodels and if the customer insists.
 
  #16  
Old 11-28-03, 07:32 PM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,262
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
Originally posted by Sparky-L.U.697
New construction I will usually talk people out of romex
WHY!?! Although I do hesitate to ask this question. I bet the profit margin for conduit is just a little higher than RX.
 
  #17  
Old 11-28-03, 07:42 PM
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 317
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
It was just beat into my head pipe makes a better instalation and the only reason I can think of for romex is cost and for me that is not an issue. I point out the cost difference and the benefits of a conduit installation and the customers usally agree.

I suppose it is really just a matter of preference and in an area where steel is produced it is just the preferred method. I feel the same way about romex as you do about conduit.
 
  #18  
Old 11-28-03, 08:06 PM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,262
Upvotes: 0
Received 0 Upvotes on 0 Posts
OK, cool.

Like I said. I've done miles of pipe, just never a whole house.
Maybe I will try it some day.
 
 

Thread Tools
Search this Thread
 
Ask a Question
Question Title:
Description:
Your question will be posted in: