Ceiling Fan Power Question

This is my first time on the site. I need some information. We had a ceiling fan with light kit in our bedroom. I am not sure if it was the switch component or ballast in the fan that started burning, but we had to take down the fan. We purchased a new fan with built in light kit. For now, we have it on a single toggle light switch in the wall. Previously, we had a wall switch specifically for the light, fan, and power on/off. My husband installed the fan, but when the wall switch is turned off, there is still power going to the fan, but not the lights. I am not sure if this is correct. I would think when you shut the switch off, that there should be no power at all to the whole fixture. I am not electrically saavy, so whatever help anyone can give would be a great help. Is there anything we can check, or is this the way it is supposed to be??

 

To properly answer the question we need to know exactly what wires are present at the wall switch and at the ceiling box. It will help also if we know how they were previously hooked up.

If you can provide this information, we can probably sort it out. Please be specific. Tell us what wires are present and what cable they come from. (A cable is two or more wires wrapped in some material or enclosed in conduit. Tell us about all wires, whether they connect to the fan or not.

 

Unfortunately, and suprisingly, this is what comes from following the instructions! Manufacturers of lighting and fan fixtures for some reason refuse to acknowledge and provide instructions for the existence of switch loops. They give those simple black-to-black and white-to-white instructions which are not always correct.

Please provide the information Bob requested.

 

My husband checked the wires in the boxes and I wrote it down. Hope this makes sense and helps you give us an answer.

In the wall switch box, there is 1 black wire and 1 white wire.

In the ceiling box, there are 3 "groupings" of wires. 1ST grouping: 2 black wires, 1 white wire.
2ND grouping: 2 white wires. 3RD grouping: Only 1 single black wire.

In the ceiling fan itself, it came with 3 wires: 1 black, 1 white, 1 blue.

Present hookup:
1) The black ceiling fan wire is hooked to the 1ST grouping of wires-2 black wires and 1 white wire.

2) The white ceiling fan wire is hooked to the 2ND grouping of wires-2 white wires.

3) the blue ceiling fan wire is hooked to the 3RD grouping of 1 single black wire.


Since we had the burning emergency and took down the prior ceiling fan 2 months ago, we don't recall how that one was connected.

NOTE: Above does not count green ground wires.
NOTE: The 2ND grouping of 2 white wires are NOT HOT, but if uncoupled, at least 2 other ceiling fixtures in the house WILL NOT light.

Please advise-Thanks Shelli

 

Because you only have two wires going to the switch on the wall, you cannot control both the light and the fan separately with that switch. You can however, control them both together.

At the wall switch, leave the white wire on one screw of the switch and the black wire on the other. This should be how it is already wired.

At the fan/light connect the following: Connect the group of white wires to the white wire from the fan/light. Connect the blue wire and the black wire from the fan/light to the lone black wire. Leave the grouping of black wire with the one white wire alone, with nothing else. Wire nut all grouping of wires. Any bare ground wires, ioncluding a ground wire from the fan/light should be grouped and connected to the metal box.

Your wall switch should now apply power to the fan and light together.

FYI, the two wires to the switch are what is called a switch loop. The white wire to the switch is connected to the grouping of black wires in the ceiling, and technically should be reidentified as a hot wire with a black marking on the white insulation.

Also FYI, the grouping of white wires are returns. They are not hot, but do carry current back to the panel.

Let us know how this works.

 

I just reread your first post. If I understand, the switch correctly controls the light, but the fan is powered all the time regardless of switch position (i.e., you have to use the pull chain to turn the fan on and off).

Note that fans are often wired exactly this way on purpose, and many people want it to work this way. So you need to first decide what you want. There is room for personal preference here. If you like it the way it is, leave it alone. If you want the switch to control the light and fan together, then follow Bob's advice.

 

We will try the suggestions. Just to throw a wrench into the mix, would any of the suggestions differ if we were to get a switch that has the separate light, fan and power switches in one unit. As of now, the single toggle switch may be temporary.
Shelli

 

If you only have two wires at the switch then you can only use the switch as a single toggle switch, controlling either device (with the other always on) or both devices at the same time.

If you have any other wires at the switch box then you have other options. Are there any other wires there? From your description of the wiring I think the answer is no, but you seem to be implying that at one time there was another switch there.

 

When we had the prior fan, we operated it by a combination switch out of the same switch box we are talking about. We were not sure if that switch burned out, so we just used a single switch to get at least the light working on the fan for the time being. With that combination switch, you were able to just operate the light by itself, or the fan by itself, or if you wanted both working at the same time, you used both switches. There was also a power to turn the whole thing off. The only wires we have are what I listed previously. But I will check that again.

 

Occasionally (too often, actually), an unethical electrician or handyman will enlist the grounding wire as a conductor in order to provide separate switches for the light and fan. This is very dangerous and should never be done by anybody with the slightest concern for minimum safety standards.

 

Thank you all for your advise. Sorry it has taken me so long to respond. My husband finally got to work on the ceiling fan this past weekend. Since you assured us that the power to the switch was the way it should be, we have both the light and fan controlled on the single toggle switch. We use the pull chain to turn the fan on and off. Thanks to you, there is one less thing on my husband's honey-do list!! Happy Holidays to all!!

Shelli

 

You mentioned in your first post that you had a "ballast" in the old fan that started burning - are you referring to a device that was installed up inside the fan canopy or inside the ceiling mounted fan (outlet) box? The switches mounted on the box may have been sending a signal (by remote control operation) up to that "ballast" which was allowing separate operation of the light & fan. Such devices are often used when separate control is desired but the circuit does not contain the necessary wiring, or running additional wiring would be undesirous.