Disposal and Elec water heater wiring.


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Old 01-09-04, 02:39 PM
Powerjockey2
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Disposal and Elec water heater wiring.

Hey code junkies. What is the NEC code reference that pertains to conduit on disposal wiring and water heater wiring? What does it say? Thanks in advance..Bill
 
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Old 01-09-04, 03:21 PM
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You will need to be more specific in your question. Do you mean is conduit required to wire either of these?
 
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Old 01-09-04, 03:37 PM
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Conduit is a Wiring Method. The purpose of a Wiring Method is to route enclosed electrical conductors from Point A to Point B and to provide an Equiptment Grounding Conductor.

For your installation Point A is the breaker panel and Point B is an appliance. At Point B the conduit termination must form a metallic "Bond" to the metal frame of the appliance using approved fittings if the conduit is to be used as the Equitpment Grounding Conductor.

Most motor and appliance hook-ups require a "tranisition" from a ridgid to a flexible Wiring Method at the connection-point such as Flexible Metal Conduit.

I believe your Code-concerns would be those that require correct Grounding connections.

Good Luck and Enjoy the Experience!!!!!!!!!
 
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Old 01-09-04, 04:32 PM
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Sorry for my vagueness. I often see romex NM cable as a wiring method for elec water heaters and disposals. I wanted to know if the romex in these applications would require conduit to protect against mechanical damage. If so, is there a code reference that applies and If so how does it read?
 
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Old 01-09-04, 04:41 PM
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The code has nothing to do with the appliance and all to do with the wiring method.
NM may not be installed where subject to physical damage. Many will consider wiring a water heater with NM to be OK since it's most likely out of the way of harm. I will usually wire to a box near the water heater and run flexible metallic tubing or AC cable to the unit.
I have never seen a disposal wired with NM. How have you seen it done? Most disposals I have seen are cord and plug connected.
 
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Old 01-09-04, 07:55 PM
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I am a home inspector and 50% of the new construction I see has NM to the disposal and Water heater. Every time I call it out I get flak and am looking for a code to hang my hat on. General safety does not seem to be a good enough for these builders.
 
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Old 01-09-04, 08:23 PM
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Except in cities like Chicago that prohibit NM outright, properly installed NM is safe, legal, and as good as any other method. Simply because the cable is NM is not a reason to be concerned. You aren't going to find a NEC code against it.

Adequate physical protection of NM is subjective. It depends on things that you can see and we cannot. If you decide to call it out, you should only suggest additional physical protection. In my opinion, it would be out of line for you to suggest that the NM be replaced. There are ways to add physical protection to NM.
 
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Old 01-10-04, 06:45 AM
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Think about it logically. NM run along the walls in a home workshop would be perfectly legal but is it safe?
Conversely NM run directly from the ceiling down to a water heater, in a utility room or closet, between the water pipes, in the corner of the room is not what I would consider subject to damage or unsafe.
 
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Old 01-10-04, 08:08 AM
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John, I never say that it needs to be replaced. My comment is that it should be protected from physical damage i.e conduit as a suggestion. I also see Pete's point about common sense. The water situation depends on the situation but I think NM under the kitchen sink would be unsafe.
 
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Old 01-10-04, 09:22 AM
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Art. 335.51, Exposed Work, (B), Protection from physical damage----" (NM) cable shall be protected from physical damage where necessary by conduit (steel). tubing, PVC conduit,------"

The term "where necessary", as JN points out, is often an issue of individual interpretation.
 
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Old 01-10-04, 09:37 AM
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Originally posted by Speedy Petey
I have never seen a disposal wired with NM. How have you seen it done? Most disposals I have seen are cord and plug connected.
No kidding? Almost every disposal I ever seen is a hard wired installation. Only the super cheapo builder disposals is the one I seen with a cord and plug.

And we use NM or romex to hook up disposals. Personally I would consider that safer than conduit considering under a sink you could have a leak where the conduit would fill with water without warning or knowledge cause a bigger problem than getting physically bumped and damaged.
 
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Old 01-10-04, 11:29 AM
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Good Point w/ the water.
 
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Old 01-10-04, 01:02 PM
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webrebel,

I run a receptacle under the sink from a switch above the counter. All the disposals I have seen have the threaded knockout at the bottom. I usually install an SO cord with a HD plug and plug the thing in.
A lot of times I will share the circuit with the DW and make a duplex half switched and plug the DW in also.


Like I said, I have never seen one hard wired with NM.
 
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Old 01-10-04, 02:48 PM
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I've never seen a dish washer with a plug on it either...I guess it's a matter of geography....

If I made up a cord and a plug around here for a dish washer they'd throw a net over me...
 
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Old 01-10-04, 03:05 PM
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All of the garbage disposals I've installed have been cord-and-plug connected, including some very top-of-the-line disposals. I guess the practice must vary regionally.
 
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Old 01-10-04, 03:10 PM
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Don't get me wrong, I kinda like the idea of an outlet for the disposal and DW. I have a question though. Don't you have to GFIC the receptacle due to the proximity to the sink? What's the code on that?
 
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Old 01-10-04, 03:23 PM
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There are no "proximity to the sink" rules for GFCI. There used to be some many years ago, but no longer. The only receptacles in the kitchen that require GFCI protection are those serving the countertop. The does not include the dishwasher, disposal, or refrigerator.
 
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Old 01-10-04, 03:59 PM
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Right on!
 
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Old 01-10-04, 04:07 PM
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God I'm old, I used to reference a 1984 Guide to the National Electric Code ....thanks for clearing that up.

I do a lot of old work, repairing and servicing existing installations, homes and buildings. I was wondering if I just hadn't got to the new fangled disposers with the cords installed yet...

BTW You guys got a nice place here. Sure is nice to get a response to a question almost as quick as you post it!
 
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Old 01-12-04, 02:55 PM
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Petey,

On other forums it has been debated about the use of flex cord like SO on disposals. The consensus was that this would be a violation, as this is using flex cord to replace a fixed wiring method. The use of cords is for the frequent interchange of machinery or for vibration isolation. Disposals are not frequently changed nor would the use of flex isolate the vibration.

I have never seen one wired with a cord.
 
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Old 01-12-04, 03:19 PM
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Many garbage disposals come with a cord attached and are designed to be plugged in.
 
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Old 01-12-04, 04:48 PM
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pcboss, I quoted John's post:
Originally posted by John Nelson
All of the garbage disposals I've installed have been cord-and-plug connected, including some very top-of-the-line disposals. I guess the practice must vary regionally.
I agree that it must be a regional thing. I have never hard wired one.

How does the refrigerator fall into your description of flexible cord connected? The only time you'd ever move either is for service or cleaning.
 
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Old 01-12-04, 05:25 PM
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As the refrigerator comes prewired with the cord on it I would think it would be different than adding a cord to a disposal.

BTW, I move my refrigerator at least once a month to vacuum behind it. This certainly can't be said for a disposal.
 
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Old 01-12-04, 05:51 PM
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All the disposals I buy come with a cord and plug already attached, just like the refrigerator. And all the homes around here that have been built in the last 30 years have a receptacle under the sink specifically for the disposal.
 
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Old 01-12-04, 05:56 PM
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Do you buy from a wholesaler? What brands come with a service cord attached?
 
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Old 01-12-04, 06:48 PM
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I buy from various retailers. Home Depot sells mostly In-Sink-Erator brand. I would assume that most manufacturers make them both ways.
 
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Old 01-12-04, 07:09 PM
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I haven't been to every store...but I have yet to see one with a cord. Again it must be a regional thing....interesting. Since getting on this board the biggest surprise for me is finding the USA has very different customs and codes by region when it comes to accepted building practices.
 
 

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