I would appreciate any advice here. I am building a new home - 2400 sq ft. Will be wiring it myself. I'm familiar with the entire procedure but have never done an entire installation at one time.

I'm just asking for any time saving tips to help me out. Things like bringing in all of the homes runs to their respective rooms.

I will be installing a GE 200 amp service panel with a 200A meter socket. I'll be using 2 "hot" lines of Aluminum 4/0 and one neutral line of Aluminum 2/0. No problems here- I think. This is code compliant in N.J.

The bare panel ground wire will be 4 AWG and connected to three 8' ground rods of 5/8". The incoming service will be underground and access the meter panel through 2" PVC.

All general receptacle outlets will be on 20A circuits / 12 AWG wire.
Any input regarding the "rough" installation would be deeply appreciated.

The main panel will be in the garage and I plan to run the home runs first and let them converge on the floor at the panel site. Then I'll connect them to the breakers.

Hope this wasn't too long. I just found this site and its great. Any advice would be great. Thanks!!!!

 

Steve,

I'm in the process of doing exactly the same thing myself, except that I'm gutting an old house and rewiring it from scratch (and adding onto the house too).

Sounds like you've got a pretty good handle on things already. I would suggest getting yourself a copy of the 2002 NEC for reference. If an inspector has an issue (s)he may or may not explain it, but will provide a code reference.

Looking at the specifications for service entries (230.42) quickly, I can't see any provision for allowing the neutral to be a lower gauge than the hots. Unless that's a local thing, I think you have to use 4/0 Al for the neutral as well.

Although I have a lot of background experience with wiring, I found it really useful to read Rex Cauldwell's "Wiring a House" (Taunton Press), whcih helped bring together what I already knew, and some things I didn't.

 

The rationale behind the smaller neutral conductor is that strictly 240v loads (such as electric baseboards) are balanced, and therefore don't factor into the ampacity requirement for the neutral. That said, check with the NEC and local regulations.

For circuits, I prefer to keep lighting and plugs separate. Then you aren't left in the dark when a breaker trips, also keeps light flicker to minimum when you've got a hungry vacuum cleaner plugged in.

 

Not to go off on a tangent here ('cause this really wasn't his question) but would somebody like to comment on the "3 ground rods"? I'm not familiar with NJ code, but I was under the assumption that if there was more than one ground (in different locations) there could be an unwanted potential rise between them in a lightning strike which can cause more damage.
Any opinions?

 

Our Engineers (no comment) spec'd that we needed to replace our grounding at work. So they had an electrical contractor install 3 ground rounds in a triangle shape and they are all connected to each other. There is approx 6' between rods.

 

The more ground rods the better. But they are all connected to one and only one place on your electrical system.

 

Sounds like you have everthing in place.For the lighting circuits I agree with u2 and would recommend {if you haven't thought of this} to bring the feed for the lights into the switchboxes and run a 3wire from each to each ceiling box,this will allow you to have independent control for fan/light kits. Ofcourse you'll need ceilingboxes approved for hanging a fan.As for the groundrods:Art.250.53{B} of the NEC states that "each electrode {groundrod} shall not be less than 6' from any other electrode of another grounding system {i.e grounded waterpipe & groundrods= 2 systems}.2 or more electrodes effectively bonded togehther shall be considered a single system."I don't know about any reference to lighting strikes and groundrods.You'll have check with local codes befor installing the rods.

 

u2slow wrote:

"For circuits, I prefer to keep lighting and plugs separate. Then you aren't left in the dark when a breaker trips, also keeps light flicker to minimum when you've got a hungry vacuum cleaner plugged in."

I couldn't agree with you more, although I think an iron is the most annoying appliance since my wife likes to iron while we watch TV. Not only does the light have to be on for her, but its up and down intensity as the iron cycles really gets on my nerves.

 

With regard to the ground rods, most codes (including NJ), require that if a metallic water pipe that extends into the earth be used as the first grounding electrode. That pipe must be supplemented by a ground rod. If you have a method of measuring the ground rods resistance relative to the earth of that system, you're done. If you can't measure less than 25 ohms, the code requires a second rod with no required measurement.
Two rods is the minimum, as mentioned by John, more rods the better.

 

With respects to grounding... How about a plate electrode? Or is it only here in Canada we can use those.?

 

I want to thank everyone for their input. In N.J. you must use at least two 8 ft ground rods spaced no less than 6 feet apart. You can buy 3 cable truncated 4/0 Aluminum Service entrance wire withe the reduced neutral all together. This cable combination is specifically designed for the purpose of installing in a "meter to service panel" situation. In addition, I did purchase the NEC 2002 CODE Book and Rex Cauldwell's book on Wiring A House. I hope this message gets out. I'm having a hard time moving through the forum system. Thanks again everyone. Steve G - N.J.

 

Hey Steve,

What town are you located in?

I'm in NJ and would be glad to pop over and give you some tips, etc... (or, I can send your our plans and pics)

(I did our house from scratch and it was a ton of fun !)

 

Go for It, Steve!!!!

You need a "telescopic" section of PVC Conduit that is connected to bottom of the Meter-Socket. Should the PVC in the trench "settle", it will "slide-down" inside the interior of the "sleeve-section" which is connected to the M-S. This prevents a rupture that might occur if the PVC was installed with a rigid joint.

Drive the rod Grounding-Electodes in the bottom of the trench you will excavate for the U-G Service raceway. The deeper the rod is embedded in the soil, the better, and if you connect the rods together which a bare copper cable laid in the trench, you will also form a "Ring" Grounding-Electrode. The NEC defines a"Ground-Ring Electrode" as " in direct-contact with the earth consisting of at least 20 ft. of bare copper conductor not smaller than #2"

If you are considering an emergency-generator system, all Branch-Circuits that will operate on emergency-generator power must terminate is a seperate emergency-power sub-panel. The emergency-power connections must be completly isolated from all "normal" utility connections when the E-G is operating. There are "package-systems" for this necessary arrangment. We have "experts" on this Forum who can refer you to WS's for the needed info.

that in the future you will know exactly what is connected to a specific breaker. This is in addition to the required Circuit-Identification on the panel itself. Using Red marking-tape,Indentify one of the Service-Entrance Conductors that terminates on the Main C-B as the "Red" conductor. The panel now has a "Black" bus-section and a "Red" bus-section. Next, determine the "sequence" of the sections. It's either 2-Black 4-Red 6-Black 8-Red, or 2-Red 4-Black 6-Red 8-Black, etc. You will connect the Black/Red conductors of the multi-wire Branch-Circuit to it's coresponding bus. This helps in establishing the correct voltage-connections for multi-wire Branch-Circuits.

Do not let the important"continuity" of the Branch-Circuit conductors rely upon "semi-permanent" device-connections. If you have 2 Blacks and 2 White at a receptacle-outlet, they are connected directly together. Defective device-connections are the most common cause of "open" circuits. "Pre-wire" all the receptacles using stranded THHN wire for the connection-leads. This is best accomplished with "crimp" lugs, so invest in a crimp-lug tool.- which reminds me----the connections of the Equitpment Grounding Conductors at outlet-boxes must be Code-compliant. In-correct connections often result in a "violation"Possibly you can use your crimp-lug tool and barrell-type crimp-sleeves for the EGC connections at the O-B's. Be absolutely certain the EGC connection-method you use is Code-approved. Possibly you could seek further advise by submitting this question to the Forum as a seperate "Posting".

Good Luck & Enjoy the Experience!!!!!!!!!!!

 

I read this thread with interest as I wired my own 3800 sq ft house a year ago at this time. I did everything with the exception of hooking up the furnace (3-220v circuits connected in ways I was unsure of) and the connection from the meter to the two 200-A panels.

I had my builders electricians do those two jobs. I wasn't about to stand there and question the pros, but the way they did the grounding rod setup was not what I expected. In one of the several books I had read, it was suggested that I run the ground wire from EACH panel to the grounding rod(s), the idea being that it didn't make sense to send a surge from one panel through the other panel before going to ground.

The electricians didn't like that idea so undid my work and ran the ground wire panel to panel to ground rod. Further, although I had purchased two rods, they used only one and it was right next to the house where, by design, it will always be fairly dry (i.e. high resistance). I KNEW this didn't comply with the code, so I made a call to the Inspectors office.

I was surprised to learn that they only required one ground rod.

Anyway, here I am a year later with a nice setup inside--400A of service with a whole house surge suppressor mounted to one panel. But it seems that the surge suppressor will only be as good as the ground system it's connected to.

When it warms up a bit, I plan on going "above the code" and replacing my single ground rod system with at least three rods separated by the proper distance and terminating in a swale that normally remains somewhat moist.

Does this seem like a reasonable course of action or (as my wife and friends often accuse me of) am I going for overkill? I assume I'll need to replace the wire all the way back to the panels and not just "add on" from the current rod.

 

BuzzHazzard; You'r mention "Ground wire from Each panel" and "Ground wire panel-to-panel-to Ground-Rod."

It's important to distinguish between Equiptment Grounding and System Grounding. In general, Equiptment Grounding is the Grounding-connections on the "Load" side of the Service Dis-Connect(s)--- essentialy the "Interior" Grounding-connections.

System-Grounding is the Grounding-connections on the "Line" side of the Service-Dis-Connect(s). The Grounding-Electrodes and the Grounding Electrode Conductor establish the System Ground by a direct-connection to the Grounded SERVICE Conductor which is on the Line-side of the Service-Dis-Connect(s). The ONLY point where the System/Equiptment Grounding-connections converge is at the Service. All "Interior" Grounded-conductors-- the Neutral-conductors on the "Load" side of the Service-Dis-Connects-are requred to be isolated from Ground. Beyond the Service, all Grounding-connections are done with Equiptment-Grounding conductors ONLY.

THe NEC reads-----"A Grounded Service shall have a Grounding Electrode Conductor connected to the Grounded (Neutral) SERVICE Conductor--- the connection shall be made to the terminal to which the Grounded Service Conductor is connected to at the Service-Dis-connects." Please know that the Grounded Service Conductor is the 400-amp Service "Neutral" conductor. Any conductors connecting panels to the Service-Dis-Connects are "Feeder" conductors.

Very Important---- "A Grounding-connection shall not be made to any Grounded (Neutral) circuit conductor on the Load-side of the Sevice-Dis-Connects(s)'----" There are a few "exceptions" to this stringent requirement, but most of them apply to "existing" installations, and even these aregradualy being deleted from the NEC.

Good Luck & Enjoy the Experience!!!!!!!!!!

 

Pattbaa,

Well, I read that a few times before I think it started to sink in. As it stands right now, I have two 200-A panels side by side. The electricians wired the grounding conductor from one panel to the other panel and then to the sytem grounding rod.

If I read what you are telling me, EACH panel should have its own grounding conductor which goes to the SAME ground rod(s) connection.

Is that correct, or do I have it all wrong?

 

Here's what I am referring to:

 

Thanks BuzzHazard; I hope I have a correct understanding of your Service-connections-----

Apparntly you have two interior panels, each with a 200 amp MCB, the MCB's serving as the Service Dis-Conncects. The conductors that terminate on the MCB's are 200 amp "Tap" conductors connected to 400-amp Service Conductors.

The 400 MCM Service Conductors requires a 1/0 Grounding Electrode Conductor. The most practical arrangement would have been to connect the 1/0 GEC directly to the 400-amp Grounded Service Conductor.

The NEC allows "Taps" off the GEC when the Service is comprised of more than one enclosure. Connecting a 1/0 conductor to the Grounded (Neutral) Conductor in a 200-amp panel can be difficult, considering the design of the Neutral-connections in most panels.

The "NEC Handbook" has this comment--- "the 'tap' method eliminates the difficulties in looping (a) Grounding Electrode Conductor (between) panels." Two #4 Grounding Conductors, one for each enclosure, would be connected to the 1/0 GEC outside the enclosures.

The impedance of a single 1/0 GEC is pratically Zero when compared to the "Reistance-to-Ground" of the Grounding Electrode it connects to, so the only advantage of a 2nd. 1/0 GEC, one for each panel, is that it's a "redundant" Grounding connection for the Service--it could be "improved" by connecting the two GEC's together at the panel-location. But I see no reason tfor a Code violation.

Cheers, PATTBAA

 

Attn: Buzz.....

Read and reply if you wish ( and to anyone else out there )

I admire your excellent descriptions when discussing a point of interest to readers.

In the near future I will be doing the rough in- (just picked up my elec. permit. today) If you or anyone else out there can give me any pointers in a speedy system to get all of the home runs out and over to their respective rooms.

I made 2 turrets that hang from the beams from the garage. The spinning turrets hold all the different guage wires that I'll need, (12/3 12/2 14/3 14/2, etc). The reasons for this is that I'll be working primarily alone and need to save any energy as possible.

I've seen friends in the business that just nail a 1000' spool to the wall on a pipe with a few nails and pull to everywhere from it. I have a small foot problem and this seems like the best wire distrbution plan for me.

I'm going to install all of the boxes and get the runs in the ceiling-but here's my question... would it be time saving if I get the desired circuit over the respective room but do not drop it down until the other "mechanics" are installed- such as HVAC & plumbing and the like?

I'm building a ranch which is an easy installation with regards to the electrical installation and accsessing all of the rooms.

I thought it would be easier to move around in the attic space before any HVAC duct work is in- but do not drop any lines into the rooms until I know exactly where the furnace/AC will sit, or the whirlpool tub, or any other major kitchen appliances.

I'll take any help here, including box installation, wire pulling, or panel-meter installation. It will be an underground service entrance. I made a little stand to set the wall boxes on when nailing to the beams to assure exact outlet height.

I even went to the extent as to getting an auto mechanic's hydraulic, wheeling, stool to move about. I've got to save energy! I'll be installing about 80 outlets. Other than a FEW general lighting circuits, the house will be wired with nothing thinner than 12 AWG.

In addition, I'll be putting in about 65 hi-hat recessed lights, so I got a platform ladder to get me to 9' high for the numerous, repetative, installations.

I've done many small jobs before, including panels, but I've never taken on an entire house wiring job by myself. Although it's my own home, I do not have an elec. lic. so the county will be scrutinizing every move I make.

As you can see, I am a little nervous in getting the job done right on the first try. So I want to gather as much advice and pointers that I can get regarding the rough in stage.

But in reality, I don't see any major costly screw-ups. I've done my share of reading and have had tons of hands-on experience. Many of the jobs that I did had to meet code inspections.

My first inspection will be in 2 weeks- I installed the power pole on the property and used 4 AWG instead of code 6 AWG (N J) for the ground wire. I'm taking no chances. I just feel that they will "flag" me for something along the way- but I'm ready.

- Thanks Again

SteveG- NJ

 

In addition to Buzz, Thanks for all of your replies.

Also to Vector, the txdiyguy, and PATTBAA, any input here will be much appreciated.

As I previously mentioned before, I am slowed just a bit due to a bad foot, so any energy or time saving tips will be appreciated.

At this time I'm waiting for a power pole inspection.

Later.

SteveG - NJ

 

My earlier post about the number of grounds had more to do with their location than their number. What I had questioned in the earlier post was whether they had driven individual ground rods at several different panels. The way it was described above as three grounds 6 ft. apart tied to one panel answered that. No problemo.

From Buzzhazards post
"In one of the several books I had read, it was suggested that I run the ground wire from EACH panel to the grounding rod(s),"

Everything said here about the dangers of tying your neutral and ground together at points beyond the main disconnect panel are correct. I wasn't questioning that.
My concern was about multiple grounds tied in at different locations. Due to the tremendous ground currents involved with a lightning strike, you can get a equally tremendous voltage rise across the earth itself. Having ground rods tied at DIFFERENT locations allows this rise to appear across your appliances and do considerably more harm than a single ground location.

 

I prefer to rough after the plumber has done his "top out" and the HVAC rough is finished. Plumber's bits and sawsalls can damage wiring. If the wiring is in the way of where a supply boot should go, the HVAC people may pull the wiring out of the way or install the boot in a less desireable position. The plumber may also have to remove a few wall studs to get a one piece shower or tub/shower installed. If you have wires in those walls, they'll surely be in the way. Also, you may run wires through what will become a return air plenum. These will either have to be re-routed (my preference) or installed in flex or whatever the local inspector requires. If you wait until after the plumber and HVAC guy is finished, you'll avoid such problems.

 

One thing I would do if wiring a house from scratch:

In rooms with switched outlets I would wire all outlet locations with 12/3 so that I had a switched (red) conductor at every outlet location. It seems no matter how much I try to plan ahead some switched outlets end up in the wrong place. Wiring with 12/3 all around would allow any outlet in the room to be switched (even more than one outlet if needed).

 

Earlier, PATBAA wrote:

"You need a "telescopic" section of PVC Conduit that is connected to bottom of the Meter-Socket. Should the PVC in the trench "settle", it will "slide-down" inside the interior of the "sleeve-section" which is connected to the M-S. This prevents a rupture that might occur if the PVC was installed with a rigid joint."

I had not heard of this before and have never seen it done locally. This really is a great idea. This should also makes it much easier to get the service cable and conduit stuck into the bottom of the meter socket. With a single rigid piece with a male adapter on the end, you have to bow the conduit and thread the service cables and conduit into the whole. With the sliding telescopic section PATBAA mentioned, it's a piece of cake to get the wires into the socket. Just slide the top piece down, stick the wires through the hole, then slide the conduit (with male adapter) through the hole and install your lock nut. It turns out that 2" Carlon PVC fits perfectly inside 2-1/2". Great idea. Wish I'd thought of it years ago.

 

Definately wait until after the HVAC rough-in to rough the electrical. Plumbing can be done before or after, generally on the jobs I've worked plumbing is done after electrical (and often the same time as low-voltage, so I got to meet a lot of plumbers ).

As for shortcut tips. Hanging spools at the panel is a great idea for home runs (though for some reason it alwasy seems easier to run from the location in the house to the panel). Another good idea is to build a cart that you can use to roll large spools of wire around, which alows you to play the wire out without taking it off the cart. I'll try to get a picture of what I mean and post it soon.

 

Is the footer already poured? Has the foundation been back filled? You can put in a much better grounding electrode in the form of a concrete encased electrode or a ground ring if the oportunity has not already passed you by.
--
Tom H

 

Man- You are great bunch of guys!

Vector: I really thought it would be better to start before HVAC only because you wouldn't have to fight with the duct work while installing home runs-no?

This is a ranch with accessable space above the ceiling beams. I figured I would install the home runs and drop them into the rooms later, when I know precisely where the major mechanical items will be located.

hornetd: I might consider concrete ground rods- foundation not poured for a few weeks.

Thanks everyone.

 

You can wire around the ducts, but if your wires are where the ducts need to be, then the HVAC guys get testy.

 

You have a wonderful opportunity to improve the grounding of your entire home if you act now. Have the concrete workers install a ring of galvanized rebar around the entire footer and tied to the rest of the reinforcing steel. One of the galvanized rebars should be stubbed up at the location of the electrical service. The Grounding Electrode Conductor is then clamped to the stubbed up rebar.

The only better electrode that a home could have is a rather long underground water pipe such as a metallic lateral connection to a public water system or the metal well casing of a deep driven water well. Installing a low impedance grounding electrode system is the key to making your homes electrical system surge and spike resistant.

If any wire carried utility will enter the home at a point remote from the location of the electrical service then it is important to stub up a piece of galvanized rebar at each wire entry point.
--
Tom H