Multiple living room lighting questions

I'd appreciate some advice on adding recessed lighting in my girlfirend's living room.

I want to add about 10 cans. I assume that I will need a new circuit. No problem with that, but is one enough? I assume that the cans will be 75 watt, but may be 150 watts. How many cans can I run on one circuit.

The cans will be on 3 three way switches, three cans on two switches and four cans on the third. One switch location has no switches currently and I can use a 3 gang old work box. The other switch location currently has a double switch and I would like to change it to 5 gang. I cannot find a 5 gang workbox. It doesn't help that this is also an exterior insulated wall. What should I do?

The NEC says I need to anchor the cable with 12 inches of the workbox. You can't do that in rework, what is the proper procedure?


Any problems using recessed cans from Home Depot or Lowes? I know I need IC fixtures as the ceiling is insulated. I like the idea of the remodel cans, but since I have attic access, I can use regular cans if necessary.

Thanks in advance...

 

The most common bulb in a recessed can is either a 65-watt or 75-watt bulb. IC cans are limited to 75 watts.

You can easily put all these cans on the same circuit. Just add up the bulb wattage. The maximum on a 15-amp circuit is 1800 watts, and the maximum on a 20-amp circuit is 2400 watts. I'd stay somewhat shy of those numbers for good measure. That should allow you more than you could possibly need.

Just my personal recommendation, but don't install a 5-gang box. They're silly, hard to wire and hard to use. Just add a 3-gang box somewhere near the existing two-gang box.

The NEC exempts you from having to secure the cable when it is fished into a finished wall.

Buy Halo brand cans and trim (sold at Home Depot). Other brands may do okay too, but the risk of disappointment is higher. The Halo only cost a buck or two more. They're worth it. Use either remodel or new work cans. You're almost certainly going to be up in the attic anyway to run the cable. Since this is the attic, consider the air-tight cans.

Ten cans is a lot of light (or else the living room is very large). Makes me suspect you might want dimmers. If so, be sure to read the rules that come with the dimmer about multiple dimmers in the same box.

 

Thanks for the reply.

The reason for the 10 cans is partly asthetics, partly practical. One wall has three tall narrow windows. Placing one over each seemed like the thing to do. The next wall has a centered fireplace with artwork on each side. 3 or 4 cans there. Next wall has an entertainment center on it. I figure two cans there. Thats 9 cans. The fireplace will have ball trims, the others will be downlights.

I plan on buying one fixture and wire it to an extension cord and look at the light patterns before I do anything permanent.

The 5 gang is to save space. There is a bookcase next to the existing switch and saving the couple inches seems important. Maybe its not. The 5 gang would look like a sea of switches. Maybe I can find a place on the hinge side of the entry door. The door open to a corner and this wouldn't be bad.

I'll look into the dimmers. Hadn't thought of that. Maybe the decora style with the dimmer slide on the side would be nice.

 

for what its worth-

I am wiring a new construction house right now with a huge great room. I had a spot whre i needed 6 switches - after a lot of hem-hawing - i ended up going with a four gang BELOW - and a two gang ABOVE. It looks pretty good

1 -15amp circuit with 14 guage wire is more than enough to run all of these lights - and then some - dimmers are nice - but get your wallet out if need three-way dimmers. the ones I looked at were about $35 each.

One more option that you can think about is double switches (2 switches that fit into a single gang slot) You will be fighting for real estate when you make your connections, but if you can do it, it may save you the hassle of fishing more wire through the wall and cutting holes in the plaster/drywall- I agree this isn't the best option - but you did say this was your girlfriends house, right???

good luck
_______________________
Yuppie

 

I have been very happy with the Progress P87 or P187 remodel recessed cans. The trims cover everything except the bulb socket, not like the cheap cans at Big Orange. The trim fits tighter to the ceiling also, no chessy little springs.

 

Things went mostly fine with the rewiring. Best thing. The GF is pretty happy.

The GF decided there was no good place near the front door for a second set of switches, so no need for a 5 gang box and no need for three way switches. Much simpler.

I went with the Emerald IC remodel cans. Not the best, but with trim and bulb they are $18.00 per can. We also decided to put track lighting over the entertainment center. That gives us more options for reconfiguring later. We were worried about really bad shadows. I also went with the Lutron toggle dimmers with the slide next to the toggle. Careful to check the derating for multiple dimmers in the same box. No more than 400 watts on the nominal 600 watt dimmer.

The fuse panel was a breeze. Its not a big panel, but easy enough to work on. Pulled two circuits through in about 10 minutes.

This work was done on a flat roof house with no more than 24 inches to crawl around the truss work. Not much fun. Both days , the temperature outrdoors was about 90. Much kudos to my tunnel rat friend. Sent him and his GF out for dinner and a movie.

Stupid things that happened:

We checked for joist locations really well so we didn't have any surprises. Well, we didn't know there was a gas line right over where we wanted 5 of the cans. Its not bad enough that the pipe paralled the joists on the east side of the house, it took a 90 degree turn over to the fireplace and both legs were in the way. At least we only cut one can hole before we found this out. Funny thing is this a wood burning fireplace, not gas. So much for the original rough-in.

There was fire blocking in one switch location. $35.00 for a flexible bit to fix this. Fishing through the fire block was only 10 minutes.

At both switch locations the heating ducts were in the way. That was a serious PITA to drill through the wall headers. Three layers of 2x4!

I replaced the foyer fixture with a recessed light for a consistent look. The switch was past the fixture so the white coming back from the switch is hot and should be relabeled. I even told my helper that was what I was suppposed to do. I didn't and wired all blacks and all whites together. Of course, thats a dead short when the switch is in the on position. This is where I learned that its hard to remove a remodel type recessed light. The clips don't like coming back out.

The MORON who installed the evaporative cooler on the house a few years ago, pulled the power though the attic access and diagonally over the exposed garage joists. I took the time to rereoute the wire along the perfectly servicable wiring chase. I don't think you can have wiring exposed like that. He also dropped the cable down to the fuse box without drilling through the wall header. Fixed that too. Left the cable restraint loose on the box too. MORON!

And for those who read this far, Thanks for the advise.

 

Thanks for the story. Makes for interesting reading. Only one thing concerns me. It's this:
If you did it like you wrote it, then it's a code violation. The NEC requires that the remarked white wire carry unswitched hot to the switch and the black carry switched power back. This leaves you with one white and one black to connect to the fixture.

 

I'll have to check. What you are saying is that the remarked white from the switch should be tied to fusebox power and the black from the switch should go to the fixture. Correct?

Could you explain why the code cares?

 

Correct.

When wired properly, you leave one black wire and one white wire to connect to the fixture. If someone later changes the fixture, they won't accidentally reverse the polarity.

Done improperly, you leave two white wires to connect to the fixture. That makes it too easy to reverse the polarity.

 

Thanks, I'll go check my work.