Is this a legit wiring technique?


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Old 04-08-04, 05:27 PM
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Is this a legit wiring technique?

Hi,

I have a 20A single outlet that will work perfectly in a location (on a 20A circuit). The only problem is that the outlet has only 1 hot (brass) & 1 netural (silver) screw terminal (along w/ ground), and I'd like to use this in the middle of the circuit. That is I want to continue the circuit beyond this receptacle, but this doesn't have the usual 2 sets of terminals.

So I was thinking of bringing in the hot cable and then pigtailing that - 1 pigtail to the outlet and the other to the line servicing the receptacles downstream.

Is this proper/acceptable/code? If I have to I'll get a traditional receptacle, but I'd love to use this one.
\
Thanks!
Bob
 
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Old 04-08-04, 05:32 PM
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Connect the 2 hots with one pigtail to the receptacle. Same for the neutral.
 
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Old 04-08-04, 06:16 PM
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Just to add a bit of detail to what Joe said...

Use one wire nut to connect the two black wires to one end of a three-inch piece of wire. Connect the other end of that three-inch piece of wire to the screw. Do the same with the white wires and the silver screw.

This is not only code, but many people would encourage you to do it this way even if you did have two screws of each color.
 
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Old 04-08-04, 06:37 PM
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Thanks, guys! Just what I hoped for. FWIW, this outlet will be sitting in surface mounted (Wiremold) unit, inside of a medicine cabinet (this way a hair dryer can always be plugged in).
 
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Old 04-09-04, 06:53 AM
noxx
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Anyone else here cross themselves when someone says "Wiremold"?

I'd give a nickel to have a word in an alley with its designer.
 
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Old 04-09-04, 07:00 AM
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I would strongly suggest that the receptacle that you are adding be a GFI type.
 
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Old 04-09-04, 07:25 AM
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Regarding the GFI, the unit is directly downstream from a GFI.

Thanks all!
Bob
 
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Old 04-09-04, 08:48 AM
hotarc
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Originally posted by noxx
Anyone else here cross themselves when someone says "Wiremold"?

I'd give a nickel to have a word in an alley with its designer.
Yeah I agree, at least he said it's going to be inside of a medicine cabinet.
 
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Old 04-11-04, 10:14 AM
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What is a "wiremold"?
 
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Old 04-11-04, 11:17 AM
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Old 04-12-04, 06:31 PM
lschonbe
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Thanks for the link to Wiremold.

It is obvious from the comments in earlier notes that there is some concern about wiremold. To my untrained eyes, I don't see the problem. Please let me know (for my education) what the concerns are. Thanks.
 
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Old 04-13-04, 10:41 PM
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Originally posted by lschonbe
Thanks for the link to Wiremold.

It is obvious from the comments in earlier notes that there is some concern about wiremold. To my untrained eyes, I don't see the problem. Please let me know (for my education) what the concerns are. Thanks.
Good Question!
Id be curious too, as I may have to go this route to 'protect' a rewiring situation in my kitchen. Having to run new 20A circuits there, I have to come down, then out the wall and back into the wall to the 2 new boxes..(at 2 different locations) ..so 'protecting' the new lines under my base cabinets (built against the wall..) to the new boxes seems to be a concern..
.......!?!?
 
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Old 04-14-04, 07:39 AM
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Wiremold conserns

Wiremold is a recognized wiring technique that the code calls surface raceway. The only concern I've had with wire mold is that it does not provide an Equipment Grounding Conductor (EGC) so you have to run a separate EGC in the raceway. The product is often misused as a covering for cable when it is intended to function as a wire way for individual conductors. The key to success in using wiremold is to do careful work and use stranded wire in the raceway. When using stranded wire best practice is to use crimp on terminals to terminate the wiring to the screw binding post of the wiring devices. If you do end up using it in a kitchen you probably want to use the nonmetallic variety.

Something to consider when using wiremold in an under cabinet retrofit application is that plugmold can make a better installation for some purposes. Plug mold is available with a variety of spacings and it can be obtained wired as a multiwire branch circuit with every other receptacle wired to the opposite leg of the circuit. I do not know if that form of plugmold is acceptable in Canada but it would seem an excellent way to provide a lot of receptacles well spaced under the cabinets.

Ground fault protection of plugmold installations can be done with upstream receptacles for the three wire type or two pole GFCIs for the four wire type.
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Tom H
 
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Old 04-14-04, 09:49 AM
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"The only concern I've had with wire mold is that it does not provide an Equipment Grounding Conductor "
..My intent was to run new 12/2 NMD from the attic, down inside the wall, then out, under the base cabinet, along the wall to the desired location, then back in the wall and up (about 6") to above the countertop to where the boxes will be then into the box for new outlets. So the 12/2 will be carrying the ground. No? The wiremold is just being used to protect the 12/2 under the cabinet (which is out of harms way anyway).
I ran this scenario/post once before,..and wiremold was mentioned as a possibility. Originally, I wasnt going to worry about the 12/2 under the base cabinets as they will be away from human contact anyway...!!
 
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Old 04-14-04, 04:05 PM
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Use schedule 80 PVC instead.

If you are doing this just for mechanical protection then you may want to consider using PVC conduit. The plastic will not effect the circuit in any way. If you use metallic wire mold it may resist penetration by dry wall screws and it's shape is easier to fit in some spaces but it may also pick up small induced currents that may cause an AC hum on radios and TVs that are used nearby.
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Old 04-14-04, 06:24 PM
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Re: Use schedule 80 PVC instead.

Originally posted by hornetd
If you are doing this just for mechanical protection then you may want to consider using PVC conduit. The plastic will not effect the circuit in any way. If you use metallic wire mold it may resist penetration by dry wall screws and it's shape is easier to fit in some spaces but it may also pick up small induced currents that may cause an AC hum on radios and TVs that are used nearby.
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.OK.
I presume that if I have to run these cables thru a conduit, then the PVC is the best route to go. Im not concerned with with any other drywall screwing or AC hums on radios etc as non of these are nearby. In this case..Im just running 2 new 12/2 lines to accomodate my microwave and the other for the coffee maker and toaster. Once the lines are in.. thats the end of story. I say IF because this seems to be a bit of 'overkill' just to bring my kitchen up to 'par'. But if the code requires it....so be it. I have no need or intention on having this inspected..as we plan on living in our house...'till death do us part'. When (and if) the time comes to sell....based on our neighborhood.. this house would probably be torn down to build a new.
Do I (or should I) still deal with the conduit biz.. or can I just staple the line in place with the S-1-RP cable staples?
Phew...
Thanks a mil
Jat
 
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Old 04-14-04, 08:41 PM
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Sounds like a plan to me.
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Tom Horne
 
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Old 04-15-04, 08:43 AM
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Originally posted by hornetd
Sounds like a plan to me.
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...Which....?
Do I (or should I) still deal with the conduit biz.. or can I just staple the line in place with the S-1-RP cable staples?
Just staple in place...or with conduit?
Thanks
Jat
 
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Old 04-15-04, 11:42 AM
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I have a follow-up question on bob md's original question. Is it correct that the "pigtail" approach also needs to be taken for the ground wires? I have had the same situation as bob md, and in addition to pigtailing the blacks and whites I pigtailed the incoming and outgoing ground wire. In fact, I did two pigtails for the grounds because in addition to pigtailing it to the screw on the receptacle, I assumed that it also should be pigtailed to the ground screw in the back of the J-Box. Is this the way to do it?
Wound up with a lot of pigtails in that box and it got pretty crowded.
Thanks.
 
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Old 04-15-04, 11:59 AM
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For devices with a green grounding screw, you must have a pigtail for the ground whenever you have more than one grounding wire in the box. Devices never have two grounding screws, it is not legal to put two wires under one screw, and code prohibits relying on the device to keep the grounding continuous. For plastic boxes, the green wire nuts with the hole in the end provide a quick and easy way to do this without cutting a separate pigtail wire.

You did it right Kray (except the part where you assumed something--although you assumed correctly, you should never assume anything; you should always make sure).
 
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Old 04-15-04, 06:41 PM
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..Kray..and John Nelson. Exactly. A bit crowded..but workable for the grounds.. I would never think about putting more than 1 ground wire on the reccepticle. Not sure if anyone would do that...(then again..who knows...) "you should never assume anything; you should always make sure". - Guess thats why we're on this site....
Im still looking for a reply Re: my kitchen situation for running 2 new 12/2's to accomodate appliances. The conduit idea seems to me to be a bit 'much'...for lines that are out of harms way. If I did go with the 'staple' route only... who would know.. and what (if any) problems would/could arise. None that I could think of.
Watcha think?
 
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Old 04-15-04, 08:25 PM
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Originally posted by jatco
...Which....?
Do I (or should I) still deal with the conduit biz.. or can I just staple the line in place with the S-1-RP cable staples?
Just staple in place...or with conduit?
Thanks
Jat
Iwould do as you proposed and just staple it in place. I cannot think that anyone would call type NMC cable that is run to closely follow the building finish and concealed behind base cabinets "subject to physical Damage."
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Tom Horne
 
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Old 04-15-04, 08:36 PM
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Oh thank you!!!!
I guess I just needed some reassurance from a pro .. so that I wouldnt feel 'guilty' of doing wrong!
Thanks for the complicity ..
- another 'project question...- but easy.. I think.
The inside of my exerior walls are open (new batt in place) and there is a j-box thru the wall for our outside door light. -
Should I put of piece of VB over the back of that j-box on the inside wall, the batt then VB the wall...or does it/should it/can it matter?
Just a thought
I was going to put a piece of vb over the back of the box just to reduce any draft and poss bugs...tho the light is silconed sealed to the house.
Good idea?
thanks
JaT
 
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Old 04-16-04, 10:40 AM
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If it harm none do as thou wilt.

I'm not really strong on the insulation side of things. My only consern is to avoid placing flamable materials into the box.
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Tom H
 
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Old 04-17-04, 08:05 AM
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Good point. But this vb wount be in the box, but covering the back side of the box inbetween the studs. And with 3.5" of batt there, that should deter any drafts....
Thanks
JaTco
 
 

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