Is a GFCI breaker needed for swimming pool pumps?

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  #1  
Old 04-23-04, 08:20 PM
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Is a GFCI breaker needed for swimming pool pumps?

I wrote a long detailed message but didn't get any replies. If anyone can help, it would be appreciated. If you need the details of my installation, see thread in this section that has a similar title.

Thanks
Bill
 
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  #2  
Old 04-24-04, 05:14 AM
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I don't KNOW the answer to your question, but I would GUESS that the answer is yes you do. However, to know for sure, I would ask the local pros who installed your swimming pool in the first place. If you installed it yourself, I would call the town building inspector and ask him. It's probably a code issue, and that office would have a definitive answer for you. I'm sure it varies town to town, state to state, so it's best to check with them.

Chris
 
  #3  
Old 04-24-04, 06:34 AM
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Thanks. Good idea. I will try to call the county on Monday. The pool was installed 20 years ago by previous owner so can't really call them since I don't know who did it. I saw in other posts mention of distances from swimming pool and I was getting the sense that if over 10 ft, some of the requirements change. Will have to get code specs from county

bill
 
  #4  
Old 04-24-04, 09:59 PM
phillyguy
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This should cover it for you. I added a few other pool related things.

An outlet for the pump only may be located
between five (5) feet and ten (10) feet from the
pool. It must be single, locking and a grounded
receptacle with a cover that can be closed when the
cord is plugged in and protected by a ground fault
circuit interrupter
(NEC 680-6(a)(1)).

Other pool info...

The receptacle for the pump/filter motor shall
a #12 or larger insulated copper ground wire run to
the panel. The underground conductors shall be in
rigid conduit, intermediate metal conduit or nonmetallic
conduit (PVC) (NEC 680-25(c)).

A 120V convenience receptacle shall be
between ten (10) feet and twenty (20) feet from the
pool and be ground fault protected (NEC 680-6(a)
(2)).

Metal parts of the pool, permanent metal ladders,
metal parts of the water circulating system,
including the pump motor and all fixed metal parts
within five (5) feet of the pool shall be bonded
together with a #8 or larger solid copper wire
(NEC 680-22).
 
  #5  
Old 04-25-04, 06:51 AM
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PhillyGuy,

You're almost there.

If the receptacle for the pool pump motor is located more than ten feet from the pool then it does not need to be twist and plug connected. Of course it would still need to be GFCI protected.
 
  #6  
Old 04-25-04, 11:37 AM
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Art. 680.21, Motors, does not mention GFI protection of pump-motors.

However Art. 680.22, (A), Receptacles, (5) GFI protection, reads---"Receptacles that supply pool-pump motors shall be (GFI protected)."
 
  #7  
Old 04-26-04, 06:44 AM
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Thanks all

I do have some confusion though. My pumps are hard wired. There is no "receptacle" or "outlet" for them as several have mentioned. Both pumps are located more than 10 feet away from the pool.

What is twist and plug connected?

Bill
 
  #8  
Old 04-26-04, 07:33 AM
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A twist lock connection is a connection where the plug is twist locked in place. A normal 110 volt plug is simply pushed in. Someone tripping over the cord or vibration may cause the plug to disconnect. With a twist lock connection, the plug will remain in place becuase it requires a turn before it can be pulled out.

I still think that you need GFCI protection, although I could be mistaken. Why are you reluctant to put in a GFCI?
 
  #9  
Old 04-26-04, 07:42 AM
phillyguy
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Here's an example of a 120v twist lock connector. It has hatchet shaped prongs that lock it in place when you twist it as a safety feature. They fit into a specially shaped receptacle.

http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/productdetail.jsp?
xi=xi&ItemId=1611778160&ccitem= (link doesn't work apparently) but you can goe to grainger.com and search "twist lock" and see a selection of them.

If I'm reading PATTBAA's post correctly I would gather that the hardwired pump would not require a GFCI. It appears to only apply to the receptacles.
 
  #10  
Old 04-26-04, 08:28 AM
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The link didn't work, but I assume that this connector is similar to what is used for my generator connector. I think it is L14-30 connector?

Bill
 
  #11  
Old 04-26-04, 09:27 AM
KChitwood
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No Gfci Required

Hammerash,
The NEC does not require that you install GFCI protection on "hardwired" pool equipment! GFCI is only required if your equipment is "cord and plug" connected. This is to eliminate or reduce the potential for electrocution during the plugging and unplugging of the motor. Worst case scenario is that someone will try to do this in their bare feet dripping water from the pool.
Although I advocate the use of GFCI's whenever necessary I would not install one on your pool pump that is already hardwired.
 
  #12  
Old 04-26-04, 10:02 AM
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The reason I am reluctant to put in GFCI is that they are 220V pumps and the cost of GFCI double pole circuit breakers is quite high (hundreds of dollars each I believe, Am I correct in this?)

Looks like I don't need to though since they are hard wired with no plugging in of cords. Do some people actually plug in their pumps?? I do have switches located near the pumps. They are 30A double pole switches that are housed in waterproof boxes with the toggle lever.

Thanks
Bill
 
  #13  
Old 04-26-04, 01:33 PM
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hammerash,

Most above ground pools run with 110 volt pumps that are plug in type. In ground pools have pumps that go either way. Smaller in ground pools tend to have plug in types, because the pumps are generally smaller. Larger in ground pools tend to have hard wired pumps, especially if they are a fair distance from the pool.
 
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