Stove top wiring

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  #1  
Old 06-29-04, 06:13 AM
Bernie
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Stove top wiring

Hello--
I have an older, hand me down, stove top to wire for downstairs rec room/kitchen. The pig tail has a ground, red and black and my wire going to fuse panel is ground, white and black. Does the red wire coming from the pigtail match to the white in the wire for the fuse panel?
I know I need to use double pole 40/50 amp circuit breaker ..

thanks, Bernie
 
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  #2  
Old 06-29-04, 07:25 AM
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if the white wire is landed on a breaker in the fuse panel, then yes. If it is landed on the groung/neutral bar... then, no. This assumes that the stove top is 220V.
 
  #3  
Old 06-29-04, 08:15 AM
Bernie
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Scott-

Okay now I'm confused (easy to do) I thought, in the fuse panel, the ground goes to the ground bus bar, the white to the neutral bar and black is hot to the breaker.
How should I match these up?

thanks very much, Bernie
 
  #4  
Old 06-29-04, 08:34 AM
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Bernie:

I believe he is telling you that if the black AND white wires of your existing cable terminate on a double-pole breaker in your panel then you have a 240V circuit; AND if your stove is 240V (which it seems to be if the pigtail on it is correctly wired with the red & black), then you are good to go.

If OTOH your stove is 240V, and the white wire of your existing cable terminates on the neutral bar in your panel, then you have a 120V circuit and thus you cannot wire this stove to this circuit the way it is.

First things first: trace the cable for this circuit back to your panel and tell the folks here what wires connect where.
 
  #5  
Old 06-29-04, 08:39 AM
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There are a number of considerations that come into play here.

If the cooktop is a pure 240-volt appliance (i.e., has no 120-volt components such as a clock or lights), then you need only two hot wires and a ground. So you normally use a black/white/bare cable, using the black and white as hot wires (both connecting to the breaker), and the bare as the grounding wire (connected to the grounding bar). There is no neutral.

If the cooktop is a mixture of 120 and 240, then you need to install a black/red/white/bare cable, connecting the black and red to the breaker, the white to the neutral bar, and the bare to the grounding bar. You'll also need to replace the cord on your cooktop to meet modern code.

Based on manufacturer specifications, you will either use a 40-amp or 50-amp breaker, and 8-gauge or 6-gauge copper wire. If you no longer have the installation manual, you can usually use the model number to get this information on the manufacturer's web site.

Bernie, I cannot quite tell what is already existing and what you are adding. Is the cable already there? Is the breaker already there? Or are you doing this from scratch?
 
  #6  
Old 06-29-04, 08:46 AM
Rlfrazee
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First thing you need to do is determine if this wiring your going to use is a range circuit requiring only 240 volts and not 120/240 as Scott asks .... connected to a double pole breaker. Can you determine what size existing wire you have this would be helpful also. In your case white to one terminal of the breaker and black to the other terminal and the ground to the ground bar. Next thing you need to do is get the wattage rating off the nameplate of this stove top. Generally speaking 8750 watts or above will be a 40 or 50 amp double pole breaker requirement. However many stovetops are less than this some are only 3500 watts or so. Get the wattage rating off your stove top and then check the breaker size of this circuit in your panel. The breaker must be sized according to the power requirements of the stove top not the size of the wire in the circuit. So if you have a stove top that is less than 8750 watts you most likely will be able to use the existing wiring but may very well have to down size the double pole breaker. Let the the forum know what your present breaker size is and the wattage rating of your stove top then we can give you the information you need.....RL

Sorry John guess we were posting at the same time
 
  #7  
Old 06-29-04, 08:53 AM
Bernie
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Scott, Moonpie, John--

Thanks for all the advice. I really appreciate it.

I probably wasn't clear enough, initially. I'm doing this from scratch. I have an older stove top that my parents gave me and am installing it in rec room kitchen. It has the four burners/elements... nothing else.. no clock. etc.. The existing pigtail has a black, red and ground wire.
During construction ( 2 yrs ago ) I ran the cable to the fuse panel. I don't remember the guage but matched it to the existing cable being used for stove upstairs. The cable to the fuse panel has black, white and ground.
So I need to purchase the double pole breaker, install it and match the wires. If I'm understanding correctly-- then I should match pigtail red to cable white and pigtail black to cable black and attach those both to the breaker and then the ground to the ground bus. Does that sound correct?

Thanks again..you guys are great.

Bernie
 
  #8  
Old 06-29-04, 09:01 AM
Rlfrazee
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Bernie you have everything correct in your thinking, however we need to know the wattage rating or amperage rating of your stove so you can install the correct breaker....RL
 
  #9  
Old 06-29-04, 09:10 AM
Bernie
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Thumbs up

RL--
That's good news. Since I'm at work I may not know until tomorrow --(unless I can get someone at home to check)..
but as soon as I get the info, I'll forward it along.

thanks again!
Bernie
 
  #10  
Old 06-29-04, 10:01 AM
Bernie
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All--
Okay, if any of you can help.. I need to find the wattage or amperage rating on this older stove top .. its a MAGIC CHEF model HA86-1. I can't find much on it using the internet ..

thank you,
Bernie
 
  #11  
Old 06-29-04, 11:49 AM
Rlfrazee
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Bernie it will be difficult to find this on the internet. Magic Chef I believe is made or owned by Maytag. There will be a nameplate usually on the outside bottom or inside the cook box on stovetops.....you can also check with a repair company and they can usually look up the info.....RL
 
  #12  
Old 06-29-04, 12:24 PM
Bernie
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RL... yes I called Maytag and gave them the model number and they couldn't even find it. Must be under "rub two sticks together" I'll look it over better when I get home and let you know how I make out.

thanks, Bernie
 
  #13  
Old 06-29-04, 02:33 PM
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You might want to visit Antique Appliances and/or Antique Stoves and shoot off an email to the folks at those sites. Since stoves are their business(es), I bet they'd be able to help you find out something about yours--they may even have old manuals or instructions.
 
  #14  
Old 06-29-04, 04:57 PM
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The only magic chef models starting with HA I could find are Hoods or Washers.
 
  #15  
Old 06-29-04, 08:02 PM
Bernie
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Okay my bad.. the model # is 86HA -1.. was mistold the number. Also, the very faded label says :
"For 3 wire 120 or 240.." and also says 6.7 KW ??
 
  #16  
Old 06-30-04, 02:39 AM
Rlfrazee
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Bernie looks like your cooktop is rated at 6.7 Kw (6700 kilowatts). Make sure then nameplate says 120 or 240 and not 120/240. For counter mounted cooktops the branch circuit load is the nameplate rating (note 4 table 220.19). So 6700/240 is 27.91 amps. This being a individual branch circuit for utilized equipment you can protect with a 30 amp double pole breaker with minimun #10 awg conductors. This will hold true as long as no other receptacle (load) is on this circuit....RL
 

Last edited by Rlfrazee; 06-30-04 at 02:53 AM.
  #17  
Old 06-30-04, 05:58 AM
Bernie
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RL, I'll verify whether it said 120 or 240 or 120/240, once I get home again ... but it will be the only load on the circuit.

thank you again, Bernie
 
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Old 06-30-04, 08:57 AM
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  #19  
Old 07-04-04, 10:40 AM
Bernie
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RL or if anyone's on-line--

checked the label on this unit- for further clarification, it says:
Wire 1phase
For use on 3 wire 120/240
or 120/208V system.

Can I still proceed as described in earlier posts..

thanks and have a safe holiday.
Bernie
 
  #20  
Old 07-04-04, 05:56 PM
Rlfrazee
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Yes. When connecting red to white identify the white with a wrap of black tape or mark it black at the breaker and junction box to identify it as a hot conductor. This is because normally a white wire is used for the grounded leg or neutral of a circuit......RL

Magic Chef's number is 1-800-688-1120 if you want to get more info or clarification from them
 

Last edited by Rlfrazee; 07-04-04 at 06:10 PM.
  #21  
Old 07-04-04, 08:23 PM
Rlfrazee
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Bernie for your info the name plate when it says for 3 wire 120/240 or 120/208 volt systems it is talking about the service utility to the main panel. Everything looks like it is strictly a 240 cooktop. In a previous post I said 120 or 240 that really isnt what a name plate would say but was trying get clarification on whether we were dealing with anything 120 volts. Sorry if I confused you, it could have been worded better. That clarification probably would be found in the installation instructions but who has those on a used cook top. The pigtail would appear to be for 240 volts that is on the cooktop. The dilema for us was it used to be ok to use a bare wire as a neutral so we want to be sure nothing is 120 volts on your cook top. Might call the Magic Chef number maybe they can provide you with the manual and you can have it on file.....GL let us know how things go....RL
 
  #22  
Old 07-05-04, 08:59 AM
Bernie
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Rl..
Okay I get it.. and I will call Magic Chef now that I have the right model number.
I'll let you know how it goes.
thanks, Bernie
 
  #23  
Old 07-09-04, 05:41 AM
Bernie
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Thumbs up

RL, Joed, Moonpie, John, Scott -
The stove works like a champ. Thanks for all the great advice. Have a great summer!
Bernie
 
  #24  
Old 07-10-04, 08:11 AM
Rlfrazee
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Bernie, glad things came out well......RL
 
  #25  
Old 07-13-04, 07:43 AM
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I don't know what your 'specialty' is, but the next time you prepare it on your 'new' cooktop let us know and we'll all come over for supper.
 
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