Old yellow wires?

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  #1  
Old 07-21-04, 08:13 PM
angeldoll
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Question Old yellow wires?

Hi All,
We just bought a new wall oven to replace our existing wall oven. Hubby thought it would be easy to switch units over, it is not working out that way!
The new unit has four wires (red, black, green, white) the old unit has old wiring that is extremely faded, looks to be ( magenta, pink, yellow, tan, there is also a shorter wire that looks like it may have been a ground it was attached to a screw in the back of the old unit.) We are confused as to what is what. The magenta is presumebly the black? The pink is the red? the yellow is the green? the tan is the white? And the kind of light greenish short wire is ???
Hubby is also saying that since we have a breaker box, we don't need the pre-existing fuse box that the wiring currently runs into. Anyone have any ideas on any of this? I appreciate any help you can give us.

Thanks,
Paula

I should mention that hubby does work in the construction industry, so he isn't new to electrical, but he is confused by this. Thanks again.
 
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  #2  
Old 07-21-04, 09:59 PM
Rlfrazee
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Hello Angeldoll, yes that certainly is some faded wire colors. Best way to solve the problem is to turn off the main breaker and remove the panel box cover, find these wires and tell us where each one connects. Two wires will be connected to a double pole breaker and two will be on the same or seperate neutral/ground bars. These bars will have several wires connected to them they will be white, bare copper or green in most cases. Be sure you and your husband are comfortable taking the cover off the panel box.
Are you sure the old oven wires are in a fuse box? Before going to the main panel. Sure you arent confusing junction box with fuse box? It is possible that a fused sub-panel is involved but would be unusual.
We also need to know the wire size of the existing wires and the size breaker they are connected to. Next we need to know the power rating of the new oven should be a nameplate with a KW rating (kilowatts). The installation instructions could say what breaker size is required for the oven, that will work also. Anyway post back with this information.......RL
 

Last edited by Rlfrazee; 07-21-04 at 10:12 PM.
  #3  
Old 07-22-04, 12:03 AM
angeldoll
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Thank you so much for your reply. We actually figured it out a few minutes ago. It seems that the box is likely what you called the fuse sub-panel. There is a box that the wires out of the old oven go into, and it has three fuses in it, two 30 amp fuses and a 15 amp fuse, Like you mentioned.(Hubby here now) I would also like to thank you and whoever put this forum together. What had me confused was the fuse sub panel had the four wires going into it and then had five wires coming out of it. And yes the colors were so faded that the white, yellow and green were all the same color at the oven end. The red power went into the thirty fuse and it had a jumper coming off of it to a fifteen amp fuse, the yellow wire. so i had an extra power wire. this one used to be connected to the old timer switches, you know like on grandma's oven. I guess they had little motors that required a constant 120 feed? THE FIX. Rip out the five wires and disconnect the 15 fuse completely. carry on connecting four to four with an extra fuse spot just sitting there. I havent checked yet to see if I need a thirty and a thirty or a thirty and a fifteen yet. but the oven elements are on a thirty like before and the timers which are all digital now are on a fifteen. but there is the matter of a convection oven fan in the back that may need a larger amperage in that fuse? O.K. If I have overstepped any bounderies, made any soon to be fatal errors, or just sound like a framer trying to do electrical work badly, please feel free to post and correct me. most of what I did just seemed to be common sense, for a FRAMER. Thank you.
 
  #4  
Old 07-22-04, 05:31 AM
Rlfrazee
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Angeldoll well I'm not exactly sure what you have there in this fuse box. It may be a fused disconnect. Are you saying you tore out the five wires and ran new cable to this fuse box, then reconnecting to the new ovens wires incorporating the fuses? You actually have two hot wires the black and red, the white is your neutral and the green is your ground. The the red and black must have a fuse or a breaker connected to them in order to protect the new oven from overcurrent. You mention only connecting the red to a fuse. Please explain exactly how you connected the new ovens wires. You also mention that the new ovens digital timers are on a 15 amp fuse? Need to be sure that your existing electrical will be correct for the new oven. It may be that you no longer will need this fused panel but only need a junction box installing a double pole breaker in the main panel. It sounds like someone ran a 120 volt circuit out of this fuse panel thus the 15 amp fuse. Anyway Hope you come back to this thread for clarification.....RL
 

Last edited by Rlfrazee; 07-22-04 at 04:36 PM.
  #5  
Old 07-22-04, 09:19 PM
angeldoll
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Talking

HI RL,
I will try to explain the best I can (hubby explained in the last post), but I am not very construction savy.
The old oven had the wires I described originally running through the 'main' connection tube (a silver threaded tube which kept all the wiring in one sheath). Those wires ran into a metal box under a lower cupboard. Upon opening the metal box, there were the 'traditional' wires (one black, one red, one white, and a bare) running into the box from the house wiring I assume. Once in the box, the bare was connected to a screw along with a faded green wire, which ran out of the box and into the silver threaded sheath thing. The black wire went into a small rectangular panel in the box, and the magenta wire came out the other end, and ran to a 30 amp fuse, then into the old oven. The red wire ran into the same mini panel as the black wire (but a different hole in it) , and the faded pink wire came out the other side and ran to a 30 amp fuse also. There was then a small yellow wire that ran from the 30 amp fuse that the red went into, into the fuse in the center, which was a 15 amp. The yellow wire continued from the 15 amp fuse into the old oven. Where the pink wire was connected to the 30 amp fuse, ran a pink wire into the old oven also. The white wire did not run into the mini panel at all, and ran into the old oven. I hope this makes sense!
What my hubby did, was to disconnect the small (it was about 4 inches) yellow wire between the 30 amp fuse and the 15 amp fuse, so now only the black wire, and the red wire are connected to fuses. He then matched up the red to red, black to black ect to connect the new oven.
I hope this makes some kind of sense, if not I can try to do a rough skematic type pic on here.
Thank you so much for the time you are taking to help us out. We greatly appreciate it! Take care,

Paula
 
  #6  
Old 07-23-04, 04:29 PM
Rlfrazee
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Ok Paula I have a better picture of what you have but must confess Ive never seen this in an oven circuit. It does appear that your preexisting wiring is four wire and will accept the new ovens wiring. Are the wires leaving this fused panel going to the main breaker panel? I hesitate to call this a sub-panel it sounds more like a disconnect since it only is fused for the oven. Is there a handle on this panel that lets you turn off the circuit? Can you check to see where the wires go after leaving this panel. Are they connected to a double pole breaker in the main panel?
Next you really should find out the power requirements of the new oven and make sure you have the right size wire and fuses installed,very important. In the case of a wall mounted oven you will take the KW rating and divide it by 240. Example: Nameplate rating 6.7 KW (6700 watts). 6700 /240 volts equals 27.91 amps. This requires 10 awg wire and 30 amp protection. 30 amp being the closest standard rating to 27.91 amps. If a specified Breaker size is called for then that is what you use.
I'm wondering if you cannot be rid of this fuse box installing a junction box instead and protecting the circuit from a double pole breaker in the main breaker panel as your husband originally suspected. I'm thinking you have had a main panel upgrade since you mention a main breaker box in your first post. I'm somewhat concerned you may have redundant overcurrent protection installed on this circuit. Might be well worth looking into. In the mean time Ive asked the moderator John Nelson to look at this and get his professional opinion, keep checking back and hopefully he will have time to reply....GL....Roger
 
  #7  
Old 07-24-04, 12:40 PM
angeldoll
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Smile

Thanks again Roger for your help. I will have hubby check the things you have mentioned. It does all sound really odd to me, but I really don't understand these things anyway. I think that what you mention about redundant overcurrent protection is probably accurate. Hubby wanted to take out the fuse protection completely, since we have the main breakers, but I figured if it is already there, there must be a reason, and made him keep it.
Our house was built in 1988, and this is the original oven that we replaced, so I am not sure why they would have any 'extra' protection, unless our codes are different here. (We are in Canada)
Thanks for asking the mod to have a lokk too. I appreciate all advice. I will have hubby check the things you mention in your last post.

Take care,

Paula
 
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