upping the amps????

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  #1  
Old 09-28-04, 12:21 PM
Jeromemdn
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upping the amps????

I have 100 amp service to my home. Each breaker is 15 amps. I just installed a ceiling fan and replace the switch and the breaker 15 to the same amp of 15. when I restore power the breaker still trips. The breaker appears to control the "future" ceiling fan and an outlet. The fan work till I flip the wall switch and then it throws the breaker. It doesn't appear to matter if there is anything plugged into the out let or not the wall switch (when flippped) trips the breaker.

Is it possible and safe to up the breaker switch to 20 amp?

All of the other breakers are 15 amp. gas furnace dryer
dishwasher and garbage disposal on same breaker and wire can run together. why is this small ceiling fan tripping a breaker? HELP
Thanks
Jay
 
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  #2  
Old 09-28-04, 12:43 PM
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The breaker is doing just what it is supposed to do. It is switching off the power to the circuit because you probably created a direct short when you wired the switch. I would double check the connections in your switch box; you probably wired it incorectly so when you turn on the switch you are creating a short. Increasing the size of the breaker is unsafe and will not solve your problem (unless you consider burning your house down as a solution!).

DavidJ
 
  #3  
Old 09-28-04, 01:43 PM
Jeromemdn
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upping the amps...

Thanks for your fast reply.

The fan works when the breaker is first turned on and continues to work until the switch is flipped.

The fan has a black white green and blue wire. The fixture has and is connected like this:

wires from ceiling Fan wires
2 black ----------------------------- black and blue
2 white --------------------------------- 1 white
2 copper --------------------------- 1 green

How should they be hooked up?
and this is the same way the utility light was connected and it worked.

Thanks so much
Jay
 
  #4  
Old 09-28-04, 02:29 PM
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What wires did you hook up at the switch? I am betting that you have a switch loop and when you turn on the switch you are shorting the hot and the return.
 
  #5  
Old 09-28-04, 03:15 PM
Jeromemdn
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up the amps... continued

at the switch there is one white and one black. at first I didn't do anything at the switch. I thiught that maybe the switch was bad so I changed it out. There are only the three wires 1 white 1 black and 1 copper. Thanks for replying.
Jay...


I kept reading other posts and i think I have a switch loop. I would like the light to wokr on the switch and the fan to work off the pull chain regardless of the switch... if poss.

I would happily live with the light and motor working with the switch.

Thanks
 

Last edited by Jeromemdn; 09-28-04 at 03:29 PM.
  #6  
Old 09-28-04, 03:30 PM
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You have not connected the wires properly at the ceiling. Determine which cable goes to the switch box and which has incoming power, then post back.
 
  #7  
Old 09-28-04, 03:33 PM
Jeromemdn
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How can i figure out the wires that go to the switch? I also added to the last post.... I think I do have a switch loop. Trying to get the fan always with power and the light working with the switch....


Thanks so much to all of your replys this is helping so much and saving me a ton.... THANKS
 
  #8  
Old 09-28-04, 03:43 PM
Jeromemdn
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ok both white wires have a little black piece of tape on them.
 
  #9  
Old 09-28-04, 03:51 PM
Jeromemdn
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ok


white and black that do not test pos for power go to the switch?

black and white that do test pos for power go to the breaker?

what goes where to get power to the fan all the time and makes the light work off the switch?

thanks jerome
 
  #10  
Old 09-28-04, 05:44 PM
Jeromemdn
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Still in need of help!!!!

Ok I think that the problem is identified as stated above ... but now I just need to figure out how to hook it up. Is there a web site that has a pic or diagram of a switch loop?
Thanks Jay
 
  #11  
Old 09-28-04, 05:59 PM
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Wow....

Your core issue is comprehension of electrical wiring. I have been dealing with electric circuits since 10 years old, and I have seen welders who are completely befuddled by it.

You can understand an electrical circuit as a series of water pipes and valves or you can understand a circuit as a model train track layout. I imagine other analogies are possible.

A standard switch has two terminals; a wire 'in' and a wire 'out'.

The next level of sophistication is a switch with three terminals; a wire 'in' and two wires 'out'. These switches are normally used in pairs and allow a circuit to be opened or closed in two locations.

The third possible switch has four terminals; two 'in' and two 'out'. The wires are either 'straight' through or 'crossed'.

Try this website, see if it helps. http://www.wfu.edu/~matthews/courses...itchesTut.html
 
  #12  
Old 09-28-04, 06:02 PM
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Take the black wire that is always powered and connect it to the white wire that goes to the switch. Also connect it to the power wire for the fan.

Take the white wire that is paired with the black power wire and connect it to the white wires for the fan and light.

Take the black wire from the switch and connect it to the power wire for the light.

Connect all grounds.
 

Last edited by racraft; 09-29-04 at 04:25 AM.
  #13  
Old 09-28-04, 06:11 PM
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One black/white pair at the ceiling is the power supply. The other black/white pair is the switch loop. A $2 neon circuit tester can figure out which is which in an instant. The power supply will be the black/white pair that lights the light (with all wires disconnected). Once you know which is the power feed, it will only take two minutes to set it right, and it will be trivial. You won't need a diagram.

I can't quite tell. Have you already figured out which one is the power feed?
 
  #14  
Old 09-28-04, 06:24 PM
Jeromemdn
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I found the power supply. The directions that are given appear to have the power supply (hot blk wire) connected to both the wht and blk wire from the fan. is tthis correct it seems like this would cause a short? The directions in the second paragraph are the ones I am not sure of. am I reading it right?
 
  #15  
Old 09-28-04, 06:27 PM
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And I repeat:

Take the black wire that is always powered and connect it to the white wire that goes to the switch. Also connect it to the power wire for the fan.

Take the white wire that is paired with the black power wire and connect it to the white wires for the fan and light.

Take the black wire from the switch and connect it to the power wire for the light.

Connect all grounds.

Where did you read anything about connecting the white wire for the fan to the hot power wire?
 

Last edited by racraft; 09-29-04 at 04:25 AM.
  #16  
Old 09-28-04, 06:59 PM
Jeromemdn
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If they are both connected to the wht switch wire?

Isn't this connecting the black hot and the white ground togeter.... if they are both to be connected to the white switch wire?


"Take the black wire that is always powered and connect it to the white wire that goes to the switch. Also connect it to the power wire for the fan."

"Take the white wire that is paired with the black power wire and connect it to the white wires for the fan and switch."
 
  #17  
Old 09-28-04, 07:12 PM
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First of all, don't follow the directions that came with your fan. Manufacturers of fans and lighting fixtures never account for switch loops in their directions, which is why so many people get into trouble following directions.

Follow Bob's directions. They are correct. Your concerns are unfounded. A switch loop always involves connecting a black wire and a white wire. It is important to understand that not all white wires are neutrals. This is so important, I'll say it again. Not all white wires are neutrals. Sometimes a white wire is just a wire colored white.
 
  #18  
Old 09-28-04, 07:27 PM
Jeromemdn
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Well it threw the breaker?????????
 
  #19  
Old 09-28-04, 07:33 PM
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Let me rephrase Bob's advice to see if it will help. Call the power cable "P", the switch loop cable "S", and the fan wires "F". So make these connections at the ceiling:
  • P-black to S-white to F-black.
  • P-white to F-white.
  • S-black to F-blue.
  • All green and bare grounding wires togther.
Is this the way it is now?
 
  #20  
Old 09-28-04, 07:37 PM
Jeromemdn
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That looks better on my little paper drawing... I have to go to work but I will try it. Thank you very much for allof your help i will let you know how it goes.

Thanks jay!!!
 
  #21  
Old 09-29-04, 04:27 AM
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Sorry, I did have a typo in my post. I have since corrected it. In my defense, it should have jumped out as a typo...
 
  #22  
Old 09-29-04, 07:54 AM
Jeromemdn
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It's working

Thank You all very much for working with me. The fan is working and no more trips to the breaker box.

Thanks again Jay
 
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