Bath/Laundry code

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  #1  
Old 10-20-04, 06:19 AM
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Question Bath/Laundry code

Trying to get some idea of the scope of the electrical work required to remodel a bathroom and I have a couple of questions regarding the code.

Can the 20 amp circuit for the bath include the ceiling lights or is strictly for outlets?
Can the 20 amp circuit for the bath continue on to supply outlets in other rooms or must it supply only the bath?
In our situation the washer & dryer will be placed in a large closet in the bathroom. Will I still need a seperate 20 amp circuit to supply power to that area?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!
 
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  #2  
Old 10-20-04, 06:35 AM
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Bathroom codes are tough to understand. Let's ignore the laundry appliances for a minute.

The receptacles in a bathroom must be on a 20 amp circuit and be GFCI protected. You have two choices.

You can put a single bathroom on a 20 amp circuit. If the circuit goes nowhere else but this one bathroom, you can include the lights, exhaust fan, etc., that are in the bathroom.

Your other choice is that you can put the receptacles in two or more bathrooms on a 20 amp circuit. If you do this, you cannot put the lights, exhaust fan or anything else in the bathroom on this circuit, just wall receptacles. The lights, exhaust fan, etc. (but not receptacles) can be on any general purpose circuit.

Under no circumstances can you put anything outside of any bathroom on the same circuit as the bathroom wall receptacles.

Whatever you do, I recommend that the required GFCI protection for the receptacles be at the point of use. It's not generally recommended to have the GFCI device be in another bathroom, or at the panel. This makes it difficult to reset.

Now for the laundry appliances in the bathroom. Code requires a 20 amp laundry circuit for a residence. Unless you have another laundry somewhere else, you need a separate 20 amp circuit for the laundry appliances in this closet in the bathroom.

Where this will get sticky is whether this circuit must be GFCI protected. That may depend on the inspector. If this is truly a closet with a doors of some sort, the inspector may not require GFCI protection. However, if the closet has no doors, then the inspector may consider this part of the bathroom and require a GFCI circuit. I don't like putting a washer or a dryer on a GFCI circuit because of the possibility of a false trip. You may be able to avoid the GFCI if you allow for no open receptacles (ie use a duplex for the washer and gas dryer, or use a single for the washer with an electric dryer on it;s own circuit).
 
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Old 10-20-04, 07:30 AM
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Thanks for the quick reply!! I was afraid you were going to say that! lol There are three seperate circuits that currently run thru this space and it would be so simple to tie into one or more of them for power but they all continue on to other rooms so...that isn't an option unless I can find a way to disconnect the downstream fixtures from this circuit & tie them into another source making the bathroom the only room on the circuit. This is the only bath in the house so I'll likely go with a 20 amp circuit to cover everything in the room with the possible exception of one ceiling light....wouldn't want to be left completely in the dark when the GFCI trips.
Am I understanding this correctly.....if I use a GFCI as the first receptacle in the circuit that everything downstream will be protected by it?
The closet for the washer & dryer, both electric BTW, will have doors and I'd really rather not have the washer on a GFCI so I'll keep my fingers crossed on that one. Already a seperate circuit for the dryer just a matter of moving it a few feet.
Thanks again for the help! This site is great and you moderators deserve a pay raise!
 
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Old 10-20-04, 07:51 AM
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Yes, you can use a GFCI receptacle to protect downstream receptacles. But you do not have to.

A GFCI receptacle has two sets of connections. There is a line hot and a line neutral. This is where the incoming hot and neutral get connected.

There is a load hot and a load neutral. This is where downstream receptacles (or whatever) that you want GFCI protected get connected.

I don't recommend that you GFCI protect lights or an exhaust fan, and code does not require that you do so. If you pigtail the line connections then there is no downstream protection. You can still use the load terminals to downstream protect a second receptacle in the bathroom, if you have one.

To make it clear that the receptacle for the washer is for nothing else, I suggest that you use a single receptacle for it, not a duplex. Since it will be on it's own circuit, this will have to be a single 20 amp receptacle.
 
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Old 10-21-04, 06:11 AM
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Wow Bob! I think you just solved all my electrical problems! This house is old....almost 100...and the wiring is a hodgepodge of circuits added as needed over the years. Some much newer and less loaded than others so I was able to disconnect the line running on to a bedroom from one of the newer circuits passing thru the bath and tie it into a different circuit so now I have a 20 amp that will serve only the bathroom receptacles and probably the exhaust fans. I'm thinking that I can run all the bathroom receptacles and then take the line thru a junction box in the attic, for the pigtails, before I tie it to the fans.

I'll have to start a new circuit at the panel for the washer when we get that far along in the remodel but I'm still a little confused as to how an inspector will view this area....is it a closet & part of the bathroom....or is it a laundry room? I believe that I'll have room to install one of those fold down ironing boards in there but I'll have to have a plug in for it....not sure where I should get the power for that one receptacle. This code stuff is confusing sometimes!

I think I'll proceed with the assumption that they'll consider it a laundry room,wire it accordingly, and then keep my fingers crossed.

Thanks again for all your help!!
 
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Old 10-21-04, 07:32 AM
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If you put a new and separate 20 amp circuit in this lundry room you will be safe no matter how it is considered.

If it is a laundry area it needs it's own 20 amp circuit. If it's a bathroom, it can be on the same circuit as the rest of the bathroom, or it can be on it's own circuit (there is no limit to how many circuits you can have in a bathroom, just that they can't serv elsewhere). The only issue you will have is whether it needs to be a GFCI circuit or not. You can always install a GFCI receptacle if the inspector says he wants one there.
 
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Old 10-23-04, 09:02 AM
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GFI in Kitchen

Hi,

Must every countertop outlet have it's own GFI or can you wire subsequent outlets on the load side of the GFI?

Thanks
 
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Old 10-23-04, 09:22 AM
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All kitchen counter receptacles need GFCI protection, but you have a choice as to how to provide it. You can use a GFCI breaker, a GFCI receptacle at the outlet, or a GFCI receptacle upstream.
 
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Old 10-24-04, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by toyotaman11769
Hi,

Must every countertop outlet have it's own GFI or can you wire subsequent outlets on the load side of the GFI?

Thanks
This is actually the newer code. If your house is older it may not even require GFI's as strange as it may sound. For years we had the "within 6' of the sink" rule as well.
I see you are on LI which has thousands of 40's, 50's built homes.
In older homes it is recommended to replace the receptacles near the sink with GFIs. If the other receptacles are fed downstream from such GFIs then all the better to protect them as well.
 
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Old 10-24-04, 10:19 AM
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GFCI requirements for receptacles within 6 feet of a kitchen sink originated in 1987. This was expanded to include all kitchen counter receptacles in 1996.
 
  #11  
Old 10-24-04, 12:42 PM
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Thanks for the replies,

I replaced the ones by the sink countertop. I have another counter with a cook top on the other side to replace yet.

What would have to happen for me to comply with the newer code?

Thanks
 
  #12  
Old 10-24-04, 01:02 PM
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You would never need to comply with newer code until if and when you renovate the kitchen.
 
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