replacing outlets in mobile home/ ground pigtails

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  #1  
Old 12-12-04, 11:46 PM
bobb
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Exclamation replacing outlets in mobile home/ ground pigtails

Hello,
I am replacing the outets in a mobile home with your standard screw terminal type outlets, since one of the outlets shorted out and i found that the outlets installed in the mobile home are the no-stript snap in type. I was advised to replace all of the outlets by an electrician, cause he said the type that were installed with the trailer are not quite as safe as the the standard type outlets used in houses. what he failed to tell me, was that the manufacturer of the the mobile home did not leave much cable to do this change over! I have installed several outlets with standard work boxes, but the rest i cannot replace do to lack of romex through the walls. I have moved one outlet to gain more access to installed a new outlet, but cannot do so with the remaining outlets, and there are quite a few.
Is there a solution to this problem, short of rewiring the outlets? i tried shallow work boxes and still no go. I am not an electrictian, but understand the basics. Can i purchase the same type of outlets i removed from the mobile home, but with screw terminals??? Or am i at a dead end? Another question i have is, when i wired in the new screw terminal outlets, i wrapped one of the two ground leads tightly around the other in a spiral manner, and then connected the single lead to the ground terminal to the outlet. Is this sufficent? I also have a problem with some outlets that went dead, this happen before i touched anything! It started in the one bedroom, then the living room went dead about a week later. Tested breakers from neutral to hot on breakers, all ok. Found power to one outlet in living room, to light switch, to another outlet in living room (switched outlet) but cannot find continuity after that outlet, to any outlet! I am stuck!!!! I think im in over my head!!!!! HELP!!!!!!!

bobb
 
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  #2  
Old 12-13-04, 07:44 AM
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i wrapped one of the two ground leads tightly around the other in a spiral manner, and then connected the single lead to the ground terminal to the outlet. Is this sufficent?
No.

Your problem with dead outlets is certainly related to a bad connection. If you're remaking all the connections anyway, you'll fix it in due course. Remember that a bad connection sometimes affects the outlet where the bad connections is, but sometime it only affects downstream outlets.

I really don't know what to tell you about your short wire problems. Maybe somebody else has some ideas.
 
  #3  
Old 12-13-04, 08:41 PM
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An idea for dealing with short wires that won't reach the new outlets...

Home Depot sells some pig tails that may help you out. They consist of a wire nut with about an 6" piece of stranded #12 wire coming out the "wrong" end of it (ie, the cap). The stranded wire has a spade end on it. See the link at the bottom for a picture...

They sell these in 10 packs, and you can get Black, White, and Green. They're about $4 a pack.


I'm thinking maybe your short wires are long enough that you could at least use these. As long as you can get your two blacks into the wire nut and twist them together in it, the pigtail then reaches your outlet. Same for your neutral and grounds.

They are called "Term-a-Nut" and made by Ideal.

http://www.idealindustries.com/IDEAL...1?OpenDocument
 
  #4  
Old 12-13-04, 09:32 PM
bobb
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Talking Term-a- Nut

Thanks John Nelson And Chirkware!

Im Going To Home Depot In The Morning And Buy Some Term-a-nut Pigtails, And Its Pigtails All Around! And This Way My Not So Good Grounds Should Be Up To Snuff Too! I Talked To A Mobile Home Supply Store Today, And All They Have R The Same No-strip Push-in Type Outlets, And I Was Gonna Just By Em And Say, Well, At Least They R New, But Id Much Rather Go With This Idea, And Have Good Ol Fashion Screw Terminal Outlets Instead, After All, Im Trying To Improved The Outlets, Why Go Backwards! Im Also Going To Pull Out The Light Switches And Have A Look See, Cause At Least In One Instance, They Piggy Backed An Outlet Off A Light Switch. Im Never Getting Into A Project Like This Again!!!! Thought It Would Be Similar To A House. Boy Was I Wrong! Even Some Of The Standard Size Work Boxes Wont Fit, Cause The Inner Walls R To Close Together, What A Nightmare! Im Gonna Have To Take My Car In For A 25,000 Mile Checkup After This, Just From The Mileage I Racked Up Betweeen My Place, Lowes, And Home Depot!!! Thanks Again Guys! Sure Made This Nightmare Berable For Me!!!

Bobb
 
  #5  
Old 12-14-04, 04:12 PM
bobb
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Talking

hello,

I installed some new outlets today in the mobile home. I used the pigtails with the 6" 12ga stranded wire and wire nut all in one. it worked fine. my question is, i had to tie the blk to blk wht to wht and green to grnd, then the pigtails to outlet. This makes the outlets in the circuit attached "parralel", correct? They were attached in "serires". How will this affect the circuit as far as the service panel is concerned? i know that in parallel, if one outlet goes bad, the others will work, but will this affect the loop back to the service panel, changing from series to parallel? Im planning on wiring all the new outlets like this, do to the romex coming through the wall in many cases is too short to strip back and connect the wires directly to the outlets.

Thank you,

BOBB
 
  #6  
Old 12-14-04, 05:01 PM
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The idea of series and parallel in electrical wiring makes little sense, and confuses people. All of your receptacles are wired in parallel, so that there is 120 volts at each receptacle. However, the cables can be run seriall from one receptaclke to the next, or in a star fashion, or in a combination of both.

When a receptacle is used to as a pass through for the current, there is little chance of that portion of the circuit failing. The two screws are connected with that small piece of metal. Assuming that the screw terminals are used (and not the accidental disconnect prone back stab connections), and the connections are properly made, there is little chance for a failure.
 
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Old 12-14-04, 05:38 PM
bobb
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Thank you RACRAFT!

Ok, then using the pigtails as extenstions in order to reach the outlets is alright then? thats all i need to know. Yes im using the good ol screw type terminals, and not using the back-stab connections. the mobile home had those no-strip push in type outlets, and i need to replace a few, so im replacing all the outlets with the standard terminal type outlets, and what a pain! But in the long run, i think its well worth it.

bobb
 
  #8  
Old 12-14-04, 06:42 PM
bobb
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Roger,
yes i know u strip the wires before u push them into the receptical!!! i meant the outlets that the trailer manufacturer installed in the trailer. (original equipment) those type of outlets, u dont strip the wires. U take off the back cover and lay the wires across the outlet and push the wires, unstripped, into these razor like brass tabs. They r cheap! and weaken with age, and literally, let go of the wires in some cases! Im installing the standard terminal type outlets, but not using the the back stab holes, using terminals, but u have to make some adajustments to the trailer walls, and deal with romex to short to cut back and strip ready for the new outlets! And not all the walls will take a standard size work box, some need a very shallow box, cause some of the walls are too narrow! Never again! Im no electrictian, but they really could take the time to consider the fact, that someone might have to replace this stuff someday!!!

bob
 
  #9  
Old 12-14-04, 07:04 PM
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Sorry Bob didnt mean to imply you didnt know this, actually I thought it was a mistype. Yes I am familiar with the type of IPC outlet you speak of my folks had them in their mobile home in Texas. They really are cheap as you say.
Ideal also makes a new push in connector that replaces wirenuts and is a listed product. Some Home depots are carrying them. They would appear to be an option for your short wire problem. Dont know much about them. Check this out.......http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/14255

Bob I deleted the reply above sorry for the miscommunication.
 
  #10  
Old 12-14-04, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by Roger
Ideal also makes a new push in connector that replaces wirenuts and is a listed product. Some Home depots are carrying them. They would appear to be an option for your short wire problem. Dont know much about them. Check this out.......http://news.thomasnet.com/fullstory/14255

I've used these as well...I had a situation where I had to have five #12 solid wires tied together...Went to Home Depot and got those massive light blue wire nuts...they were a pain. Several weeks later...same situation. This time I used one of these push in wire connectors...Seemed like a pretty solid connection, and a LOT easier.

Anyone else have an opinion on them?
 
  #11  
Old 12-14-04, 10:01 PM
bobb
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Roger,

Its ok roger. Sometimes i dont explain myself well in type! Those push connecters from ideal r a great idea too! Im gonna do the whole trailer with the pigtails, much easier to fold the stranded wire into workbox also! An eletrician is coming by sometime tomorrow to help me with the wiring problem, "open" somewhere. I did find two outlets so far that burned from what looks to be arcing at the connectors inside the oulet, but that didnt solve the problem, still no power to the outlets on that circuit. Breakers tested good too. Another question! Why didnt they install GFI's for the outlets on either side of the kitchen sink, and over the sinks, in both bathrooms? Is there a GFI breaker in the service panel? On breaker in the panel has a "TEST" button on it, and is on the bathroom circuit. Is that a GFI breaker? No breaker like that for kitchen tho.

bobb
 
  #12  
Old 12-15-04, 04:22 PM
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Bob, yes that breaker with the test button is a gfi breaker. Push the test button and see if it deenergizes these receptacles. You should push the test button once a month or so to make sure the gfi is working correcly by deenergizing the circuit. Code does require gfi protection for any receptacle within 6 feet of any sink or lavoratory in a mobile home. So if there isnt a gfi breaker protecting those receptacles and the receptacles themselves arent gfi's, then there may be a gfi receptacle hidden somewhere you havent thought to look. Heres what I would do if that gfi breaker doesnt remove power from the kitchen and bathroom receptacles. Go to home depot an purchase a receptacle tester that also tests for gfi protection. Plug this into the outlet and push the gfi test button if there is a hidden gfi somewhere protecting those receptacles this should cause it to trip and kill the circuit. Now your going to have to find this gfi to restore power....Ha! This is what the tester looks like......http://www.professionalequipment.com...40_product.jpg

The one last option would be if the mobile home was built berfore gfi protection was required.
 
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