no power or light

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  #1  
Old 01-02-05, 08:56 PM
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no power or light

we built the house in 92,in one room,the closet pull light dont work and the plug on the same wall dont work.have had some people check it for me but cant give a answer.have put new plug in,have check wires to both plug and light but dont have power to them.i live out in the country so i dont have building codes and they dont check stuff like this out here.have one plug on the other three walls that work and the light switch works.i am no power person and need some info.i know how to wire things because i just built a shop and me and dad wired it.this has been like this since they built it.
 

Last edited by robby521; 01-02-05 at 09:10 PM.
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  #2  
Old 01-02-05, 09:48 PM
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There are many possibilities, and it's difficult to tell you how to solve this mystery. First shut off the breaker and make a list of everything on this circuit. Then check the connections where the stuff is not working, and also in the other boxes on the same circuit. Look for loose wire nuts and loose wires poked into holes in receptacles and switches. If this never worked since the original construction, then it's possible that these things were never connected correctly in the first place. In that case, you may need to tear down the drywall to find the problem.
 
  #3  
Old 01-02-05, 11:00 PM
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When I did some wiring. long time back.

It was a code violation to put a pull chain light in a closet or switched light.

We had to install a magnetic switch (maybe two) in the door jam for the closet lights
When you close the door the light will turn off.

A light in a small closet may start a fire if you forget to turn it off.
may be if its a large closet manual switches are ok.

I'm thinking that some inspector said the light and plug were in violation so they cut the wires.
 
  #4  
Old 01-03-05, 03:42 AM
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all others have the same pull light and work as mentioned .i live out in the country so you do not have to have a permit to do anything.if you want to build a shop,barn or anything in your yard just go to it.
 
  #5  
Old 01-03-05, 04:49 AM
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Just because something was done years ago, or because no inspection was done does not make it safe.

An exposed incandescent bulb in a closet is a serious safety issue. That's why it is against code.

I suggest very strongly that you replace those bare bulb fixtures with covered fixtures, or at the very least use fluorescent bulbs.
 
  #6  
Old 01-03-05, 05:12 AM
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ok i dont understand about the light,sorry.it is the white looking glass and string,screwed to the box with just a bulb in it,if this is the kind you are saying,i will get them out for sure.
 
  #7  
Old 01-03-05, 06:32 AM
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Pull chain fixtures in closets are not a code violation unless they have an exposed incandescent bulb, or unless the fixture is too close to the shelves.
 
  #8  
Old 01-03-05, 07:27 AM
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Originally Posted by John Nelson
Pull chain fixtures in closets are not a code violation unless they have an exposed incandescent bulb, or unless the fixture is too close to the shelves.
John, if it's an exposed incandescent, how close CAN it be to the shelf?
 
  #9  
Old 01-03-05, 09:08 AM
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If it's an exposed incandescent, it has to be outside the closet. If it's an enclosed incandescent, it has to be 12 inches (measured horizontally only) from the edge of the fixture to the front edge of any shelf. If it's a fluorescent, it can be 6 inches.
 
  #10  
Old 01-03-05, 03:05 PM
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Back to the actual problem.
Has this receptacle and light ever worked since house was built? Could a box have been drywalled over that needs to be exposed and some connections made.
The problem could be in a working receptacle, light or light switch on the same circuit.

How many cables come into light and receptacle box? This will give a clue as to which way the power feed comes from.
 
  #11  
Old 01-03-05, 04:20 PM
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no it has never worked.could have drywalled over,but dont think so because of the way the builders were.there is one to the light and two at that plug.
 
  #12  
Old 01-04-05, 06:42 AM
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An exposed incandescent bulb in a closet hasn't always been a code violation. I'm not sure when they were "outlawed" but most homes around here built prior to the late 1970's have them. You are not required to
upgrade them to present codes, but it is a good idea (I did in a rental property I own). Also, using a door switch (I'm not sure what GWIZ's "magnetic" switch might be) is not a valid solution (what if you
leave the door slightly ajar?) and doesn't alter the code requirements. The present code is very specific and a little confusing (so specific and confusing that there is a drawing in the code book). You have to maintain proper clearances for a ceiling mounted fixture. Sometimes, when the closet gets very small (and shallow), your only choice is a flourescent fixture above the door controlled by a snap switch (most door switches are not rated for a fluorescent fixture). When the closet gets very, very small, you simply cannot have a light inside the closet.

410.8 Luminaires (Fixtures) in Clothes Closets.
(A) Definition.
Storage Space. The volume bounded by the sides and back closet walls and planes extending form the closet floor vertically to a height of 1.8 m (6 ft.) or the highest clothes-hanging rods and parallel to the walls at a horizontal distance of 600 mm (24 in.) from the sides and back of the closet walls,
respectively, and continuing vertically to the closet ceiling parallel to the walls at a horizontal distance of 300 mm (12 in.) or the width of the shelf, whichever is greater; for a closet that permits access to both sides of a hanging rod, this space includes the volume below the highest rod extending 300 mm (12 in.) on either side of the rod on a plane horizontal to the floor extending the entire length of the rods.

(B) Luminaire (Fixture) Types Permitted. Listed luminaires (fixtures) of the following types shall be permitted to be installed in a closet:
(1) A surface-mounted or recessed incandescent luminaire (fixture( with a completely enclosed lamp
(2) A surface-mounted or recessed fluorescent luminaire (fixture)

(C) Luminaire (Fixture) Types Not Permitted. Incandescent luminaires (fixtures) with open or partially enclosed lamps and pendant luminaires (fixtures) or lampholders shall not be permitted.

(D) Location. Luminaires (fixtures) in clothes closets shall be permitted to be installed as follows:

(1) Surface-mounted incandescent luminaires (fixtures) installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling, provided there is a minimum clearance of 300 mm (12 in.) between the luminaire (fixture) and the nearest point of a storage space
(2) Surface-mounted fluorescent luminaires (fixtures) installed on the wall above the door or on the ceiling, provided there is a minimum clearances of 150 mm (6 in.) between the luminaire (fixture) and the nearest points of a storage space
(3) Recessed incandescent luminaires (fixtures) with a completely enclosed lamp installed in the wall or ceiling, provided there is a minimum clearance of 150 mm (6 in.) between the luminaire (fixture) and the nearest point of a storage space
(4) Recessed fluorescent luminaires (fixtures) installed in the wall or the ceiling, provided there is a minimum clearance of 150 mm (6 in.) between the luminaire (fixture) and the nearest point of a storage space
 

Last edited by txdiyguy; 01-05-05 at 05:51 PM.
  #13  
Old 01-04-05, 12:56 PM
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Originally Posted by txdiyguy
using a door switch (I'm not sure what GWIZ's "magnetic" switch might be) is not a valid solution (what if you
leave the door slightly ajar?)

*****************
It was about 1982 when I was helping with wiring new construction.
I remember one of the workers drilling a hole in the door jam, I asked him why.
He explained you cant have an closet light on a manual switch that would be a code violation.
Whether that is a CITY code violation or a code BOOK violation I don't know.
I think we did that in all City's

Maintain proper clearances ?
After seeing people pack box's to the top of the light in a closet then pushing that last furry coat between the light and cardboard box. and that 100 watt light bulb so grandma can see better.

I would out law any lights that gets hot in a small space and that plug.

That plug.
Think of grandma using an electric heater with a closet plug then forgetting to turn it off and putting it in the closet.
Grandma saying, after the house burned down. It was easier for me to leave the heater plugged in I just push it back into the closet. "I did not know it was on"

I see the reason for the codes.
The codes cant prevent every thing.
(if the door is ajar) your going to see light from the gap. so you turn it off.
The other thing if the door is ajar the closet may not get as hot.

What choice do you have if grandma forgets to turn off that 100 watt bulb inside the closet.
A magnetic switch is, in my opinion is a valid solution.
At that time, I don't think a fluorescent light would put out the amount of light you need for the size fixture.
 
  #14  
Old 01-04-05, 05:18 PM
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Originally Posted by robby521
no it has never worked.could have drywalled over,but dont think so because of the way the builders were.there is one to the light and two at that plug.
Ok the light probably comes from the receptacle. The second line in the receptacle is the power feed. You need figure out where it goes. Look at any receptacles nearby that work. Check them. Could even be a light switch.
There should be a receptacle within 6 feet of any wall start and then every 12 feet. If it appears any are missing then I suspect the drywallers covered the box and the receptacle never got installed. Sometimes if look closely at the wall you can see a bulge. Even the best drywallers sometimes miss one. It just happens.
 
  #15  
Old 01-04-05, 07:42 PM
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now that you say that there is a plug on each wall,and the braker box is on the other side wall from the light.the braker box is on north wall and the light and plug are on the east wall.braker box is in the other room with wall between it and the light.
 
  #16  
Old 01-05-05, 05:36 PM
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Originally Posted by GWIZ
*****************

(if the door is ajar) your (sic) going to see light from the gap. so you turn it off.
You must be assuming that someone will remain in the room to see the light from the gap. You must not have children.
 
  #17  
Old 01-05-05, 05:46 PM
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My own house was built in 1949. I have two downstairs closets that have pull chain open lamp fixtures. One closet contains coats and the other contains kitchen appliances and other such items. To avoid problems these closets had 15 watt light bulbs installed when we bought the house.

I keep saying that I will install different fixtures, but haven't gotten around to it. To install different fixtures I might have to address the 60 degree wire issue, and I would have no ground.
 
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