Kitchen

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  #1  
Old 02-18-05, 08:54 AM
FlyersFan
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Question Kitchen

I am currently in the process of remodeling my kitchen. I am at the rebuilding stage and I am getting ready to do the electrical. Here is how I am going to do it, any suggestions or is everything in order?


5 – 20 Amp Breakers needed
Using 12-2
1 – 50 Amp Double Breaker for the Range
Using 6-2

1 Refrigerator
2 Microwave (does this need it’s own breaker or can I group with Refrigerator)
3 Garbage disposal and 6 20 amp GFCI outlets
4 4 20 Amp outlets and fish tank (Fish tank is going in the wall and will be using 20 Amp GFCI)
5 All Lights - 1 ceiling fan, 4 recessed lights and one piece of track lighting (3 lamps)
6 Double for 220 line
7 Double for 220 line
 
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  #2  
Old 02-18-05, 09:05 AM
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This is my recommendation, based on code but not to the minimum:
*This is for the US. If you are in Canada please wait for another reply*

-Refer, dedicated circuit, 15 or 20 amps

-Micro, if in it's own space dedicated circuit, 20 amps

-Disposal, can be on with dishwasher. No need for dedicated circuit

-At least two counter top circuits, 20 amp. NO NEED for 20 amp devices, even GFI's.
Again, in Canada it is code to use 20 amp devices, don't ask me why.
ALL receptacles serving countertops must be GFI protected. Not
necessarily GFI devices. Can be on the load side of a GFI.

-Range MUST be 3-wire. 6/2 is illegal and unsafe. For the average residential
range it can be 8/3 on a 40 if you want. I still use 6/3 on a 50.

-Lighting circuit can be 15 amp with #14 if you want. #14 is much easier to
work with for lighting.
 
  #3  
Old 02-18-05, 09:13 AM
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Basically you can have as many 20A circuits you WISH in the kitchen area but you have to have a minimum of (2) 20A on the countertop access which can also include dinning, refridge and so on.

You should run a dedicated line to the MicroWave however.

You should run a dedicated line to the Garbage Disposal as well...and I wont get to technical on other options here...just easier to run a dedicated line for it in my experience.....I dont even like the ideal of tapping a junction under the sink for a dishwasher as well....I like dedicated lines to things like this.

Now you are aware you don't need to use 12-2 for the lighting in the kitchen...sure you are free to do so but in my experience ( which I hate cutting in 12-2...lol and 12-3 even more...lol ) you can use 14-2 for the lightning and on its own circuit.

To assist you in this I will simply refer you to the NEC section that refers to all the kitchen requirements : Art 210-52(2)(b), Art 210-52(3)(C).

Now theses are the branch ckt requirements for the kitchen listed above.

Also in regards to GFCI check out Art 210-8(a)(6)

Hope this helps...as for the number of circuits...thats up to you per your needs but the CODE simply mandates a minimum of (2) to serve the countertop and dinning areas and pantry.
 
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Old 02-18-05, 09:14 AM
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Man....Speedy is....TRULY SPEEDY....lol.....I love it...lol
 
  #5  
Old 02-18-05, 09:14 AM
FlyersFan
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UPDATED


5– 20 Amp Breakers needed
Using 12-2
1 – 15 Amp Breaker for lights
Using 14-2
1 – 50 Amp Double Breaker for the Range
Using 6-2 with ground

1 Refrigerator
2 Microwave
3 Garbage disposal and 2 15 amp GFCI outlets (Countertop)
4 4 15 amp GFCI outlets (countertop)
5 4 15 Amp outlets and fish tank (Fish tank is going in the wall and will be using 15 Amp GFCI)
6 All Lights 15 Amp using 14-2 - 1 ceiling fan, 4 recessed lights and one piece of track lighting (3 lamps)
7 Double for 220 line
8 Double for 220 line


Better? Oh ya, I am a US resident.

QUESTION: If the breaker is 20 Amp, wire is 20 amp, how can I come I can use 15 Amp GFCI outlets? I am curious.

Thanks for the quick responses guys.
 

Last edited by FlyersFan; 02-18-05 at 09:26 AM.
  #6  
Old 02-18-05, 09:22 AM
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Pre-2002...lol....we run # 6 SE all the time to our ranges...lol....and that is ALUM for a 50A breaker...but in copper you have 65A at 75 degree terminals....it listed...but per code since it is under 100A the wiring terminal temp should the 60 degree terminals...and this # 6 copper would be 55A..and still fine for 50 A or 40 A range.

However now you DO have to run a 6/3 w/ground to ranges....man I remember those cheap days of using SE...lol....and some in our area STILL allow it....I guess until it is adopted in 2002 here in VA
 

Last edited by ElectricalMan; 02-18-05 at 10:22 AM.
  #7  
Old 02-18-05, 09:24 AM
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hi
6/2 is illegal and unsafeeven with ground.You need 2 lines plus a neutral and a ground. For residential range it can be 8/3 on a 40 amp
use 6/3 on a 50.
 
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Old 02-18-05, 09:30 AM
FlyersFan
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ok 6-3 it is
 
  #9  
Old 02-18-05, 09:59 AM
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PG...you know Virginia....lol.....we again are STILL allowed to use 6 SE( in one area of the county) for our ranges...lol.......go figure us Virginians...lol atleast until the new code is adopted.

But sad to say.....PG is correct...lol.....because I do the bidding and i liked the idea of cheap SE....but ni more...lol...the new code now DOES require 4 wire for Ranges....all insulated...lol....8/3 is fine if the range is 40A....as the terminal rating is 60 degrees ( 310-16 ) if their is a doubt....6/3 is the way to go....in case the range is a 50A.
 

Last edited by ElectricalMan; 02-18-05 at 10:25 AM.
  #10  
Old 02-18-05, 10:32 AM
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From someone who's owned fish for a while...

Will the fish tank be on it's own circuit? While I love the idea of built in fish tanks, if the GFCI trips because of another appliance, and you don't find out about it for a while, your fish could die, depending on how big the tank is, the biological load of the tank, and how long they are without filtration or heat.
 
  #11  
Old 02-18-05, 10:52 AM
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Do not put the garbage disposal on any counter top circuit! Put it on it's own circuit.

The fish tank can't be on a counter top circuit either. Not sure from your description if proposed it that way or not.

basically, put nothing but counter top receptacles on 2 (or more) the counter top circuits.
 
  #12  
Old 02-18-05, 11:22 AM
FlyersFan
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Fish tank will be on its on with extra outlets that will basically only be used for running the vacuum in the living room and things like that. The tank will be in the wall coming into the kitchen so it is visible in the living room. It will look very nice.

Once again, Thank for you help everyone. Keep adding suggestions if you have any more.
 
  #13  
Old 02-18-05, 12:53 PM
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Originally Posted by FlyersFan
QUESTION: If the breaker is 20 Amp, wire is 20 amp, how can I come I can use 15 Amp GFCI outlets? I am curious.
I've wondered about this too, as you seldom see 20A outlets (with the horizontal blade). My guess that manufacturers may not put more than a 15A load on a regular plug (vertical blades), so current-limiting is enforced that way. Multiple outlets may together supply 20A combined but no one outlet may supply more than 15A. I'd appreciate corrections.
 
  #14  
Old 02-18-05, 03:36 PM
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howdy,

Actually in many cases the recep is rated for both 15A and 20A and in the same case you have receps that are ONLY rated for certain amps.

Art 210-21(b)(3) chart says a 20A circuit can have a receptacle rated 15 or 20 amps where as a 15A circuit must have a recep. rated for not over 15A.

Most of the commercial grade Recepts are rated for 20A but most standard duplex RESIDENTIAL receptables are rated 15-20A.

The code allows for this as listed in the chart described above but the code is specific in that as always the EQUIPMENT must be labeled for use as such unless specificed in the code.
 
  #15  
Old 02-18-05, 04:47 PM
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I think the thing most lay persons forget is that a 15 amp duplex receptacle is two receptacle outlets on one yoke.
This is the whole idea on which the exception is based allowing 15 amp receptacles on a 20 amp circuit.
 
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