I am wondering if what I want to do is to code and/or if I need to get a permit.

In there master bedroom, there are two boxes on a wall for lights, but I do not want them. I want to take one of the boxes and basically put it on the other side of the same wall as the bathroom is right behind the box, so it would basically be very simply making a new box in the bathroom, then placing the existing wires in that box, and having a bathroom outlet, putting in a GFCI. One problem is that NONE of my house is grounded, any problem putting in the GFCI for code or for future owners.

The other box is near a switch, so I was hoping I could just cap the wires in this box with the switch. I would essentially have two white wires, two black, then the switch wires. These wires from the box are currently capped correctly so it would just be moving the wires to the switch box. If that isn't to code, I suppose I could always get a bigger box and put a swich and an outlet there. To top it all off though, the switch and wires from the box I'm trying to move are on DIFFERENT breakers.

Thanks much.

 

Bryan,

Ok....I am sure I will get FLAMMED for this one but heck I might as well live on the edge...lol

Firstly, since you state the house is not actually current with the code in the first place, I would assume their are way more NEC issues in the house other than this which is being done for your convience I assume.

Now, the problem is if you are using that RECEP in the bathroom and have a hair dryer plugged into it and being a old house what else might be on the circuit and TRIPPING issues...heck some homes NEW trip on a GFCI plug in the bathroom because the electrician went GUNHO and put outside receps, bathroom recepts and all on once circuit so they could just use one GFCI breaker or GFCI recep. at the panel to service as the plug needed at the panel and service the entire GFCI system.....PRE-2002 Days...lol

Now the problem is with Section 210-11(c)(3) in that the bathroom recep ( GFCI ) should not have any other receps on it...now the exception pertains to only (1) Bathroom and (1) Feed for it....and other applliances in the bathroom...NOT in the house...

So technically...and being technical.....you should not do what you are asking....However, you home also does not comply to many of the new things so WHO AM I to tell you not to add it....

I am just telling you what the CODE says in regards to this....

I am sure others will elaborate on it....I dont want to be guilty of telling you what I would do.....and I am licensed....but again it is your house.

I would obviously PREFER you to run a new line from your panel to the box in the bathroom and then have it GFCI.....but again alot just to add a recep so I will let you read between my text for my answer...sorry...I can't bare getting flammed by someone in here for suggesting what I would like to suggest..lol

And no......against my better judgment no need for a permit...I consider this a service call where I come from...lol....not major electrical renovation but again areas differ and opinions do as well.

 

thanks much. now that I think about it, I believe that the two light boxes that I had referred to were new wiring from the box, along with one outlet in that room that they moved due to some built in cabinetry. So, if I am correct the new line ran to the one room with only the two light boxes that I want to move and one outlet.

Now, I've since capped the wires to the one outlet and am using the "old" wiring for the outlet (I've removed the terrible built in cabinetry). I've also capped the wires to one of the lights and they are in the swicth box. The other wire is going to the bathroom GFCI so I suppose there is only one line to the bathroom GFCI, the others are capped, although I'd have to confirm this.

Can I have wires capped in the switch box that are on a different breaker? I can't run the wire to the bathroom box because it won't reach. I suppose I could just remove that wire completely.

Regarding the house not to code, it was built in 1960, and when bought had all 3 prong outlets, despite not being grounded. My understanding is that anything new had to be to code, but existing stuff didn't because it was to code when built.

On a side note, what about putting GFCI outlets in the kitchen for the microwave and fridge to add to safety w/out having to rewire the whole house. I'm sure there are MANY folks with this problem as so many houses were built before the newer, safer codes.

Bryan

 

Bryan,

Sure you can have capped wires in the box if you are not using them...No problem on that. If the circuit you are refering to that is to be the recep in the bathroom and ends up being the only thing on the circuit you are home free.......

And yes I see ALOT of this in older homes we deal with...far be it for me to get HOLY on them and say no they can't have a recep if it is protected with a GFCI....I look at it is a service call and I personally do not have a problem adding it.....I am sure others will disagree...but it is fact.

And yes the CODE is pertaining to new construction and newly done construction....this I would label as service issue...lol...wink..wink and you are fine.....again if it is on it's own circuit and was added later....go for it...GFCI protect it away and add your plug.

 

Technically you are only "home free" if this is also a 20 amp circuit, as bathroom receptacles are now required to be 20 amp circuits.

Do not hide any junction boxes. All junction boxes must be permanently accessible. They can be behind furniture, but they cannot be covered by built in cabinets or by sheetrock.

 

Hmm...I did not see where a juntion box was being covered in the question...only turning the box around to be a recep in the bathroom.

As for it being a 20A.......yep...that would BE IF running a new line.....

So are you going to tell a person they can't have a recep in the bathroom even if the line is found to be on its own circuit and lets say it is 15A...but the breaker is also 15A....and in his own house.

I knew the flamming would start.( just teasing ya RAC )..lol......Personally in my house....and I again am a Electrician.....and lets say I were in this situation....I would protect with 15A breaker, ( if it was not 20A and 12 AWG ) and I would put the plug in....maybe it is me...But again we do ALOT of service calls and in old houses and making things meet the NEC that is current is hard to do with what we have to work with sometimes....as long as it is protected, wired correctly and sized according to the wire at hand......I dont have a worry installing it.

 

this is all very helpful.

replacing the fridge/microwave with a GFCI outlet, good idea or not?

the GFCI will NOT be grounded as NONE of the house is, but from what I have read on this website over the last several months, that isn't a problem, the GFCI will still trip, albeit you will get a shock but hopefully not a fatal one as opposed to no shock if the fridge became "hot" because the GFCI would trip immediately, and not when someone touched it.

regarding capped wires in a switch box on a different breaker, i just didn't want someone to come in and turn off the breaker, touch these wires, and WAMO get shocked. but i suppose they should always check them with a meter.

it is a 20A circuit.

oh, I looked again, and it seems that the bathroom recepticle that I was referring to does have another outlet on it, completely accross the house in a sunroom. i'm not sure of the wiring on that.

 

A microwave needs a ground, as it is electronic. Do not run your microwave on an ungrounded (or improperly grounded) circuit.

It is not considered a good idea to run a refrigerator on a GFCI, because of the problem with a trip. You may not notice a trip and lose all your food. You should run your refrigerator on a properly grounded circuit.

 

ok, so i know that I SHOULD have the fridge/microwave on a grounded circuit, but my house is not grounded and I cannot afford to rewire the entire thing so it is grounded. so my next though was what is the other best alternative--1. GFCI the micro, leave the fridge ungrounded; 2. GFCI both.

obviously 40 years ago nothing was built grounded, so MANY folks must have this issue.

thanks.
bryan

 

Even 40 years ago they did ground kitchen receptacles, at least in some states/locales. My house built 55 years ago was built with grounded receptacles in the kitchen.

Do not run your microwave without a proper ground. You risk damaging it.

You don't have to rewire your entire house to ground your kitchen receptacles. You can rewire just those circuits, or even just ground those circuits.