Question for 220 wiring???

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  #1  
Old 03-23-05, 11:27 AM
gearshift101
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Question for 220 wiring???

Hello, All

I just purchased a 200 amp arc welder for home use, With this welder I can switch from 110 to 220 with a flip of a switch. When I plug the machine into a 110 outlet after a few seconds the 15 amp breaker trips. So I've come to the conclusion! that I want to dedicate a 220 line for the welder.

I think I need! a double pole 20 amp breaker, and about 30' of 10-3 wire connected from the breaker panel to an exterior 220 weather proof outlet box, would this be right? or do I need a higher amp breaker and a different gauged wire? I also need to know would it matter what type breaker I can use or will any breaker work?

Thanks, gearshift101
 
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  #2  
Old 03-23-05, 11:33 AM
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Follow the manufacturer's specifications in the installation instructions. If you can't find any, quote everything on the nameplate to us. If you can't find that, post the make and model of welder.
 
  #3  
Old 03-23-05, 11:34 AM
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The specifications for the welder will tell you the power requirements. What do they tell you?

The breaker you buy will have to be compatible with your panel. You can';t buy any breaker, or even any breaker that fits. The breaker has to be designed for your panel.
 
  #4  
Old 03-23-05, 01:02 PM
gearshift101
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welder question

It's a cheapy welder, model # BX1-200amp arc welder, but this is what I have.

1. rated output current - 200
2. rated input voltage- 110/220
3. rated frequency HZ - 50/60
4. rated input capacity KVA - 10.5
5. no load electric voltage V- 50
6. rated duty cycle % - 10
7. rated load electric voltage V - 28
8. current range - 60-200
9. insulation grade - H

Thats all the user manual shows. Hope this will help! Thanks
 
  #5  
Old 03-23-05, 02:38 PM
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What make and model is this machine and do you have a link for it?

The specs sound a bit off.
By my figures if it requires 10.5 kva then it would consume 8.4 kilowatts of power.
This would then need a standard 50 amp 220 volt welder plug.
But, what's up with the 120 volt operation.
Doesn't make sense.

What configuration is the plug that comes with it?
 
  #6  
Old 03-23-05, 06:22 PM
gearshift101
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220 Wiring For Welder

It came with the standard 3 prong 110 plug wire looks heavy duty. The switch on the machine can be set to either 110 or 220. I'm lost here. I bought it from ebay. the Item number is 3879966513 just copy and paist into search and you'll see the machine welder BX1-200amp.
 
  #7  
Old 03-23-05, 06:28 PM
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gearshift101

What make and model is this machine and do you have a link for it?
 
  #8  
Old 03-23-05, 06:33 PM
gearshift101
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welder info

This is what I got from the web page on ebay. Rated Input Voltage: 110/220 AC
Welding Current: 60~200 Amps
Working Capacity:
100% - 60 Amps
20% - 130 Amps
10% - 200 Amps
Weldable Electrodes: 5/64" to 5/32" don't know what all that means??
 
  #9  
Old 03-23-05, 06:49 PM
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As stated before the output numbers mean nothing in this case.
We need the input amperage or wattage.
You obviously have the machine, what does it say on the rating plate?
 
  #10  
Old 03-23-05, 07:27 PM
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gearshift101,

What make and model is this machine and do you have a link for it?
 
  #11  
Old 03-23-05, 07:36 PM
JoeST
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Out of all the welders I have used or seen I have never heard of one that could be selected to use 110 or 220, for all I have ever seen it's one or the other. Allthough what you have would be considered just a small hobby welder so I guess it's possable.
Weldable Electrodes: 5/64" to 5/32" don't know what all that means??
These are the electrode rod sizes useable with the welder, there is more to them than that though as in type of rod for metal being welded.
 
  #12  
Old 03-23-05, 08:09 PM
gearshift101
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welder

here a link for the welder www.ebay.com once on ebay copy and paist this number in the search bar #3879966513.
 
  #13  
Old 03-23-05, 08:10 PM
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There are welders on the market that are DVI (dual voltage input). However I have never seen one that that uses a switch. How would you be able to plug into the different nema receptacles for the different voltages? Normally these welders have quick change plug adapters like the miller version... http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...llermatic_dvi/ .... could be your welder falls into this welders input specifications but cant be sure.
 
  #14  
Old 03-23-05, 08:14 PM
gearshift101
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welder

Originally Posted by Roger
There are welders on the market that are DVI (dual voltage input). However I have never seen one that that uses a switch. How would you be able to plug into the different nema receptacles for the different voltages? Normally these welders have quick change plug adapters like the miller version... http://www.millerwelds.com/products/...llermatic_dvi/ .... could be your welder falls into this welders input specifications but cant be sure.
Thats what puzzels me the electric cord is a regular 3 prong plug for 110v. I don't get it
 
  #15  
Old 03-23-05, 08:15 PM
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The information that everyone is asking for is written on the welder itself. Just read it off and post it here.
 
  #16  
Old 03-23-05, 08:31 PM
gearshift101
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welder

Originally Posted by John Nelson
The information that everyone is asking for is written on the welder itself. Just read it off and post it here.

on the back of welder where the electrical cord is is says: 220v/110v then it shows a 3 prong plug then numbers 1~50/60Hz. then on top it shows this: U2: 22.4V - 28V
: 220v 30A max 47A 50/60Hz and for the 110v 60A max 94A 50/60Hz then it says: IP21S
 
  #17  
Old 03-23-05, 09:14 PM
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Gearshift you have bought one strange welder. I'm not real sure it is a listed product. John here is the manufacturer's website...http://www.jinling-cn.com/... if you click on the BX1-200 you get some information but it is confusing to me. The weird thing is that the specs show this thing using 380 volts not 220. Except there is a BX1 200C that I cant get any information on the website.
Gearshift assuming we can figure out how to wire this thing, the web site instructions say that you have to change the entire cord for the voltage you want to plug into then move the switch to that voltage.
I'll give this a shot but dont hold me responsible . Your breaker is tripping on 110 volts because this thing requires 60 amps minumum on 110 volts and can draw 94 amps at max output rating..WoW!!! I dont think we have a plug in 110 volt receptacle that is rated that high in North America. You diffinitely want to wire this welder for 220 volts. Looks like you will need to change the cord and use a 50 amp circuit for 220 volts. But this is real strange welder and I hesitate to say that you should use this product.
This is the welder on ebay...http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...sPageName=WDVW...maybe it will shed some light ...I give up
 

Last edited by Roger; 03-23-05 at 10:05 PM.
  #18  
Old 03-23-05, 09:43 PM
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gearshift101,

It looks like what you have is a welder that may have been produced for Europe and North America.
The 220 volt specification would coincide with the 50 cycle rating and the 120 volt, the 60 cycle which is used in North America.
First time I have seen a voltage switch on the face of a machine.

What I don't see and would be a concern is that this unit does not appear to be listed with UL or another listing agency.
I'm not sure of the laws where you are but it is illegal in Canada to sell any electrical device that is not certifiied.
 
  #19  
Old 03-24-05, 01:19 AM
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NOW I SEE.
If you super-size the picture from e-Bay of the welder you purchased, you see the cord WITHOUT a plug ( just wires).
You need to match the plug for the power requirements of the welder.

Who put the plug on the welder ?

My 230 amp welder is rated 230 volts at 48 amps. about 1100 watts. uses a 50 amp receptacle

My 100 amp welder is rated 115 volts at 26.6 amps.
The plug has one prong rotated 90 deg. that makes it fit a 20 amp receptacle Only.
Cant plug it in a 15 amp receptacle.

Do you have an instruction manual ?
I think it would say, change the plug for 240 volt use.


Running your welder on 120 volts 15 amp circuit. You will need to stay below 70 amps output
and use # 6013 welding rods 1/16" or 5/64" diameter.
Your less likely to trip a breaker using the smaller diameter rods.
Larger rods allow more current to pass, requiring more power from the line.

My 100 amp welder works good on a 20 amp circuit with a GFI breaker.
I only used my 230 amp welder 3 times on 1/4" metal.
 
  #20  
Old 03-24-05, 08:25 AM
gearshift101
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Thanks guys, I'm lost with all this, there is no UL listing anywhere on the machine, it's from china, I went to the chins website to find only a BX1-200 welder and the specs are a bit different from the 200c type.

comparing the BX1-200 and 200c

rated output current A is 200. the same as the 200c
rated input voltage - 380/220 on the 200c it's 220/110
the frequency Hz are the same 50/60
input capsity KVA is 15. on the 200c it's 10.5
the no-load elec voltage is 66 on the 200c it's 50
the duty cycle % is 20% on the 200c it's 10%
current range is 40 -200 on the 200c it's 60/200
the welding rod size is 2~5 on the 200c it's 2~4.

If all this makes sence, let me know what I need to connect the welder to a power source. Thank's again for your time, gearshift101

rough one
 
  #21  
Old 03-24-05, 04:06 PM
gearshift101
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welder

Thanks for the help guys,

I'm going to run a 220v setup for the welder, which would be better to use a 2 pole 30 or 50 amp breaker with a 10/3 cable rated for 600v?

gearshift101
 
  #22  
Old 03-24-05, 05:15 PM
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Do not even think of protecting 10 gauge wire with a anything larger than a 30 amp breaker. As for the "3" part of 10-3, You almost certainly don't need a neutral.
 
  #23  
Old 03-24-05, 05:20 PM
dirty-d
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Is there a manual that lists how many amps it pulls on full load?
Chances are you will be good with a 30A double poll breaker, 10-2 wire (two covered and one bare ground, 3 wires total) and a 30Amp twist lock receptacle.
You would need a 30Amp twist lock plug for the welder as well
 
  #24  
Old 03-25-05, 07:35 AM
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You should install the 50 amp circuit. 30 is too small for that welder. It will work at lower welding currents below 80amps for short bursts. If you want to do any heavy welding you will be blowing the breaker.
 
  #25  
Old 03-25-05, 08:24 PM
gearshift101
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If I use a 50 amp circuit breaker, I would need a heavier wire like 8-2 instead of 10-2 with a 30 amp breaker and receptical, right? I'm probly never going to use the full 200amp's on the welder. I'll be doing more stich welding then anything else. using a 5/32" or 5/64" rods. and for lighter gauge metal I'll be using a 1/16" rod where I'll only need about 80 amps.

Thank's to all, For the reply's to this post.

gearshift101
 
  #26  
Old 03-25-05, 08:54 PM
dirty-d
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Originally Posted by gearshift101
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If I use a 50 amp circuit breaker, I would need a heavier wire like 8-2 instead of 10-2 with a 30 amp breaker and receptical, right?
Correct.

If you;re not doing anything heavy concider buying a 175 amp mig welder. They work well on 30amp circuits.
 
  #27  
Old 03-26-05, 05:22 AM
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Personally I wouldn't use something that wasn't designed for use in North America, bu that is your choice.

Please do not mix receptacles, wire types and breaker sizes. If you want a 50 amp breaker then use wire sized properly and a 50 amp receptacle. Don;t use a larger size breaker than the wire and receptacle allow and don't use a larger size receptacle than the wire and breaker allow.
 
  #28  
Old 03-26-05, 07:30 AM
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I can tell you from experience at freinds house that a 30 amp circuit will barely support 80 amp welding. You have to take breaks between your short welds or you will be flipping the breaker.
 
  #29  
Old 03-26-05, 07:34 AM
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Soap Box Time!

You buy on ebay and it is "buyer beware". 100 emails and forum posts later you still don't know if it will work. At best, we seem to know it does NOT carry a UL listing, which in most cases would prohibit it's use in a commercial application. Even for home use, your insurance company might have an issue.

Subscribe (free) to the consumer product safety commission email service on recall notices ( www.cpsc.gov). You will see DAILY recalls of products made overseas which are catching fire from defective electrical components ( fans, motors, switches, etc.) They cut corners over there and nobody cares!
 
  #30  
Old 03-26-05, 06:53 PM
gearshift101
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you can get off the soap box now!

Originally Posted by 594tough
You buy on ebay and it is "buyer beware". 100 emails and forum posts later you still don't know if it will work. At best, we seem to know it does NOT carry a UL listing, which in most cases would prohibit it's use in a commercial application. Even for home use, your insurance company might have an issue.

Subscribe (free) to the consumer product safety commission email service on recall notices ( www.cpsc.gov). You will see DAILY recalls of products made overseas which are catching fire from defective electrical components ( fans, motors, switches, etc.) They cut corners over there and nobody cares!
Hey! did you see a recall for the BX1-200c welder? I did'nt. But anyway, because after 101 emails and forum post later, NOW I KNOW IT WORKs! thank you.I ran 10-2 wire to a 30 amp breaker and connected a 30 amp receptical, and also changed the 14/3 wire on the machine, with 10/2 and it welds with no problem, I can burn the whole 5/64 rod with no tripping of the breaker.

I want to Thank all those who gave their advice! Thanks again. gearshift101
 
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