Open Ground - Fooling your building inspector

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  #1  
Old 03-27-05, 06:15 AM
revolon
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Question Open Ground - Fooling your building inspector

I know that each of you who reads this will have something negative to say about my question, but in this case I need to make this work somehow.

I recently remodeled my home, complete redo down to studs. I had requested that my electrical sub give me a number to replace all the wiring in the home( 1950's)since we had all the walls open. He inspected the wiring and told me that what was installed would be fine and we would just add in new wiring in the parts of the home that were being modified. I also had to upgrade the service entry and install a new panel in the home. So we trully had the house gutted. He did a great job roughing in the wiring in the home.

I elected to do the finish wiring because I felt he was overcharging me for his small amount of time. My delima is this:

I now have 3 prong receptacles on two wire wiring and have added additional new receptacles to the existing run. This leaves me with Open Grounds which will not pass electrical inspection. I can not determine how my electrician would have solved this problem with the current wiring that is in place. I am looking for suggestions. Here are two that I have heard to date, please verify if these will meet code or just work at all.

1. Wire a jumper from the neutral to the ground lug to fake out the plug tester for the inspection.

2. Install a GFI with NO GROUND INSTALLED and label appropriately. All down stream GFI's should not have a ground installed and should be labeled "Not Grounded" and "GFI protected"

3. I have conduit and metal Boxes on the existing wiring check for ground at the metal box. This should be done by checking continuity between a de-energized neutral of the circuit and the box?? Is this right? If I have continuty then I can just ground to the box.

Thanks for listening and hope to hear from someone.
 
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Old 03-27-05, 06:29 AM
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Option:

1) Don't even joke about that. Don't even suggest it, not even to "fool" an inspector.
This is my "nice" reply to this subject.

2) A viable alternative, but.......why bother when.....

3) You have metal boxes, conduit and wire?? 99.9% of the time conduit is grounded. This is your answer and it was there all the time. Maybe the electrician anticipated this and was going to take care of it on the finish??
If an electricain had half a clue he would NOT extended ungrounded circuits knowing it was a code violation.


Lastly, in my traditional sarcastic fashion:
It serves you right for not letting the man finish his job. To expensive for his "small" amount of time?? How much is your time worth? How much is all this aggrivation worth to you?
Dollars per exact hour a tradesman is on site is NOT an indication of how much he is worth.
 
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Old 03-27-05, 06:47 AM
revolon
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Thanks for the comments...my reasons are many, but a few that stand out are:

1. Sub-contractors are notorious for pricing their work based on the cars in the driveway or the neighborhood you live in, in this part of the country and probably elsewhere. This irritates me more than anything, but that is what makes our capitalist economy work.

2. I am an architect, and I demand perfection from all who work with me. My home is modern and requires a much higher level of precision than your typical suburban McMansion. Most subs want to do perfect work but do not understand what that means in the context of a modern home. But I can't tell you how many aren't meticulous enough, at least as meticulous as me.

In the end, I would rather save my money and have a job done once and done completely right then pay someone to do a job half-way and have to spend my personal time fixing what they should have done correctly to start with.
 
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Old 03-27-05, 06:57 AM
winkleal
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Interesting reasons

Oh please, please let me visit the finished product and pick apart your "precise" finish electrical work. If you were looking to do precise work, you should have redone all of the electrical wiring in the house. You have only yourself to blame for the problems you are having.
Tony
 

Last edited by majakdragon; 03-27-05 at 07:08 AM.
  #5  
Old 03-27-05, 07:09 AM
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This post is getting argumentative and personal. Please refrain from personal opinions. Thanks.
 
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Old 03-27-05, 07:21 AM
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revolon -
This is 100% contradictory. You want complete perfection in an installation yet you complain the price is too high. If you are in that posh of a neighborhood you have no place complaining about price. It comes with the territory.

Seeing that you are an engineer I am surprised and disappointed that you would even suggest bootlegging a ground. I am also surprised that being the way you are you settled for not completely re-wiring.


So what do you think about your options? Is the conduit grounded in your home?
Are you in Chicago, how old is the home?
If it is that "modern" I would have to assume the conduit is indeed grounded.
 
  #7  
Old 03-27-05, 07:29 AM
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Do you have conduit or armor cable?
If you have conduit you can use the conduit as ground or pull in new ground wire.
If you have armor cable then the metal armor could posibly used as the ground.
 
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Old 03-27-05, 07:31 AM
revolon
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I need to check the conduit...I suspect that it may not be because I noticed during construction that a lot of the conduit ran into the attic and stopped with the wiring continuing to the main panel.
 
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Old 03-27-05, 07:40 AM
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Originally Posted by revolon
2. I am an architect, and I demand perfection from all who work with me. My home is modern and requires a much higher level of precision than your typical suburban McMansion. Most subs want to do perfect work but do not understand what that means in the context of a modern home. But I can't tell you how many aren't meticulous enough, at least as meticulous as me.
If thats the case, you should have done it right the first time. Replacing the whole ungrounded mess would have been the responsible thing to do. Plus doing it while things are ripped down to the studs makes it a whole lot easier.
Bandaids aren't permanent solutions to a problem.

Architects and engineers should know that tricking an inspector is both unethical and unsafe. I'll leave it at that.
 
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Old 03-27-05, 07:40 AM
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If you went with option #1 and the inspector just happened to take that receptacle out of the wall he would have looked harder for more rejections. Most inspectors aren't electricians, but they're not completely stupid. If you try to hide something and they find it, you'll have a hell of a time getting your job passed.
 
  #11  
Old 03-27-05, 08:08 AM
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Everyone has opinions on how things should be done and DIY does not allow telling a member to do anything illegal. Personal opinions and attacks on a member are not professional and do nothing to provide informative answers. Since it appears that all the original questions have been answered, this post is closed.
 
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