Open Ground - Fooling your building inspector
#1
Open Ground - Fooling your building inspector
I know that each of you who reads this will have something negative to say about my question, but in this case I need to make this work somehow.
I recently remodeled my home, complete redo down to studs. I had requested that my electrical sub give me a number to replace all the wiring in the home( 1950's)since we had all the walls open. He inspected the wiring and told me that what was installed would be fine and we would just add in new wiring in the parts of the home that were being modified. I also had to upgrade the service entry and install a new panel in the home. So we trully had the house gutted. He did a great job roughing in the wiring in the home.
I elected to do the finish wiring because I felt he was overcharging me for his small amount of time. My delima is this:
I now have 3 prong receptacles on two wire wiring and have added additional new receptacles to the existing run. This leaves me with Open Grounds which will not pass electrical inspection. I can not determine how my electrician would have solved this problem with the current wiring that is in place. I am looking for suggestions. Here are two that I have heard to date, please verify if these will meet code or just work at all.
1. Wire a jumper from the neutral to the ground lug to fake out the plug tester for the inspection.
2. Install a GFI with NO GROUND INSTALLED and label appropriately. All down stream GFI's should not have a ground installed and should be labeled "Not Grounded" and "GFI protected"
3. I have conduit and metal Boxes on the existing wiring check for ground at the metal box. This should be done by checking continuity between a de-energized neutral of the circuit and the box?? Is this right? If I have continuty then I can just ground to the box.
Thanks for listening and hope to hear from someone.
I recently remodeled my home, complete redo down to studs. I had requested that my electrical sub give me a number to replace all the wiring in the home( 1950's)since we had all the walls open. He inspected the wiring and told me that what was installed would be fine and we would just add in new wiring in the parts of the home that were being modified. I also had to upgrade the service entry and install a new panel in the home. So we trully had the house gutted. He did a great job roughing in the wiring in the home.
I elected to do the finish wiring because I felt he was overcharging me for his small amount of time. My delima is this:
I now have 3 prong receptacles on two wire wiring and have added additional new receptacles to the existing run. This leaves me with Open Grounds which will not pass electrical inspection. I can not determine how my electrician would have solved this problem with the current wiring that is in place. I am looking for suggestions. Here are two that I have heard to date, please verify if these will meet code or just work at all.
1. Wire a jumper from the neutral to the ground lug to fake out the plug tester for the inspection.
2. Install a GFI with NO GROUND INSTALLED and label appropriately. All down stream GFI's should not have a ground installed and should be labeled "Not Grounded" and "GFI protected"
3. I have conduit and metal Boxes on the existing wiring check for ground at the metal box. This should be done by checking continuity between a de-energized neutral of the circuit and the box?? Is this right? If I have continuty then I can just ground to the box.
Thanks for listening and hope to hear from someone.
#2
Option:
1) Don't even joke about that. Don't even suggest it, not even to "fool" an inspector.
This is my "nice" reply to this subject.
2) A viable alternative, but.......why bother when.....
3) You have metal boxes, conduit and wire?? 99.9% of the time conduit is grounded. This is your answer and it was there all the time. Maybe the electrician anticipated this and was going to take care of it on the finish??
If an electricain had half a clue he would NOT extended ungrounded circuits knowing it was a code violation.
Lastly, in my traditional sarcastic fashion:
It serves you right for not letting the man finish his job. To expensive for his "small" amount of time?? How much is your time worth? How much is all this aggrivation worth to you?
Dollars per exact hour a tradesman is on site is NOT an indication of how much he is worth.
1) Don't even joke about that. Don't even suggest it, not even to "fool" an inspector.
This is my "nice" reply to this subject.
2) A viable alternative, but.......why bother when.....
3) You have metal boxes, conduit and wire?? 99.9% of the time conduit is grounded. This is your answer and it was there all the time. Maybe the electrician anticipated this and was going to take care of it on the finish??
If an electricain had half a clue he would NOT extended ungrounded circuits knowing it was a code violation.
Lastly, in my traditional sarcastic fashion:
It serves you right for not letting the man finish his job. To expensive for his "small" amount of time?? How much is your time worth? How much is all this aggrivation worth to you?
Dollars per exact hour a tradesman is on site is NOT an indication of how much he is worth.
#3
Thanks for the comments...my reasons are many, but a few that stand out are:
1. Sub-contractors are notorious for pricing their work based on the cars in the driveway or the neighborhood you live in, in this part of the country and probably elsewhere. This irritates me more than anything, but that is what makes our capitalist economy work.
2. I am an architect, and I demand perfection from all who work with me. My home is modern and requires a much higher level of precision than your typical suburban McMansion. Most subs want to do perfect work but do not understand what that means in the context of a modern home. But I can't tell you how many aren't meticulous enough, at least as meticulous as me.
In the end, I would rather save my money and have a job done once and done completely right then pay someone to do a job half-way and have to spend my personal time fixing what they should have done correctly to start with.
1. Sub-contractors are notorious for pricing their work based on the cars in the driveway or the neighborhood you live in, in this part of the country and probably elsewhere. This irritates me more than anything, but that is what makes our capitalist economy work.
2. I am an architect, and I demand perfection from all who work with me. My home is modern and requires a much higher level of precision than your typical suburban McMansion. Most subs want to do perfect work but do not understand what that means in the context of a modern home. But I can't tell you how many aren't meticulous enough, at least as meticulous as me.
In the end, I would rather save my money and have a job done once and done completely right then pay someone to do a job half-way and have to spend my personal time fixing what they should have done correctly to start with.
#4
Interesting reasons
Oh please, please let me visit the finished product and pick apart your "precise" finish electrical work. If you were looking to do precise work, you should have redone all of the electrical wiring in the house. You have only yourself to blame for the problems you are having.
Tony
Tony
Last edited by majakdragon; 03-27-05 at 07:08 AM.
#6
revolon -
This is 100% contradictory. You want complete perfection in an installation yet you complain the price is too high. If you are in that posh of a neighborhood you have no place complaining about price. It comes with the territory.
Seeing that you are an engineer I am surprised and disappointed that you would even suggest bootlegging a ground. I am also surprised that being the way you are you settled for not completely re-wiring.
So what do you think about your options? Is the conduit grounded in your home?
Are you in Chicago, how old is the home?
If it is that "modern" I would have to assume the conduit is indeed grounded.
This is 100% contradictory. You want complete perfection in an installation yet you complain the price is too high. If you are in that posh of a neighborhood you have no place complaining about price. It comes with the territory.
Seeing that you are an engineer I am surprised and disappointed that you would even suggest bootlegging a ground. I am also surprised that being the way you are you settled for not completely re-wiring.
So what do you think about your options? Is the conduit grounded in your home?
Are you in Chicago, how old is the home?
If it is that "modern" I would have to assume the conduit is indeed grounded.
#9
Originally Posted by revolon
2. I am an architect, and I demand perfection from all who work with me. My home is modern and requires a much higher level of precision than your typical suburban McMansion. Most subs want to do perfect work but do not understand what that means in the context of a modern home. But I can't tell you how many aren't meticulous enough, at least as meticulous as me.
Bandaids aren't permanent solutions to a problem.
Architects and engineers should know that tricking an inspector is both unethical and unsafe. I'll leave it at that.
#10
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If you went with option #1 and the inspector just happened to take that receptacle out of the wall he would have looked harder for more rejections. Most inspectors aren't electricians, but they're not completely stupid. If you try to hide something and they find it, you'll have a hell of a time getting your job passed.
#11
Everyone has opinions on how things should be done and DIY does not allow telling a member to do anything illegal. Personal opinions and attacks on a member are not professional and do nothing to provide informative answers. Since it appears that all the original questions have been answered, this post is closed.