Conduit sizing for outdoor spa

Reply

  #1  
Old 06-16-05, 04:35 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: US
Posts: 357
Conduit sizing for outdoor spa

My outdoor spa requires four (4) #6 AWG wires (2 hot, 1 neutral and 1 ground) from the disconnect to the spa connection panel.

What is the correct conduit size to handle these wires?

The famous "green book" so often referred to in this forum says to consult the NEC book due to the length of these tables and being a homeowner, I don't have a copy of the NEC.
 

Last edited by sgtgerryf; 06-16-05 at 05:32 AM. Reason: Delete a question
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 06-16-05, 09:21 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dry Side of Washington State
Posts: 738
Originally Posted by sgtgerryf
My outdoor spa requires four (4) #6 AWG wires (2 hot, 1 neutral and 1 ground) from the disconnect to the spa connection panel.

What is the correct conduit size to handle these wires?

The famous "green book" so often referred to in this forum says to consult the NEC book due to the length of these tables and being a homeowner, I don't have a copy of the NEC.

You can use 1" Schedule 80 PVC, or 1" Schedule 40 PVC, for 4- 6 AWG THWN insulated conductors. Where do you live in the good ol' US of A?
 
  #3  
Old 06-16-05, 01:41 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: US
Posts: 357
Thanks and one more question.

Thinman,

Thanks, and I live in Maryland, just outside of Baltimore.

The wiring info for my spa/hot tub states if the run from the main panel to the disconnect is over 100 feet, I should use #4 and then #6 from the disconnect to the hot tub panel. It will only be about 45-50 feet max. from the main panel to the disconnect, but would it be better to bump up to # 4 for the whole run. The price difference for #4 is only 6 cents more per foot, although #4 is only in black, whereas the #6 is in colors which can help for easy identification.

Your opinion please if this wire guage increase is overkill.

Also, how far away can I put the disconnect from the spa. I would like to "hide" it if at all possible (not visible for users of the hot tub, but still accessible).
 
  #4  
Old 06-16-05, 03:50 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dry Side of Washington State
Posts: 738
Originally Posted by sgtgerryf
Thinman,

Thanks, and I live in Maryland, just outside of Baltimore.

The wiring info for my spa/hot tub states if the run from the main panel to the disconnect is over 100 feet, I should use #4 and then #6 from the disconnect to the hot tub panel. It will only be about 45-50 feet max. from the main panel to the disconnect, but would it be better to bump up to # 4 for the whole run. The price difference for #4 is only 6 cents more per foot, although #4 is only in black, whereas the #6 is in colors which can help for easy identification.

Your opinion please if this wire guage increase is overkill.

Also, how far away can I put the disconnect from the spa. I would like to "hide" it if at all possible (not visible for users of the hot tub, but still accessible).
Manufacturer is talking about voltage drop, thus using a larger wire gauge.

What is the total number of feet from the main panel to the spa? What size is the circuit breaker feeding the spa?

I asked about where you live because PVC has a tendency to expand and contract in cold weather. Installing an expansion fitting in the conduit run eliminates that problem. How cold does it get where you live?
 
  #5  
Old 06-16-05, 07:12 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: US
Posts: 357
It can get down to 0 at times, but that is rare and most times the winters are above freezing during the days and in the 20s at night.

The manufacturer says to put a 60 amp GFCI breaker in the disconnect. I would assume I could feed the disconnect with a 60 amp breaker in the main. If not what size breaker should I use to feed the disconnect from the main.

Also, how far can the disconnect be from the hot tub?
 
  #6  
Old 06-20-05, 09:17 AM
Member
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Dry Side of Washington State
Posts: 738
Originally Posted by sgtgerryf
It can get down to 0 at times, but that is rare and most times the winters are above freezing during the days and in the 20s at night.
I would install a PVC conduit expansion fitting.

Originally Posted by sgtgerryf
The manufacturer says to put a 60 amp GFCI breaker in the disconnect. I would assume I could feed the disconnect with a 60 amp breaker in the main. If not what size breaker should I use to feed the disconnect from the main.
What brand is the service panel?

Originally Posted by sgtgerryf
Also, how far can the disconnect be from the hot tub?
The disconnect has to be within sight of the spa and not within 5 feet of the spa.
 
  #7  
Old 06-20-05, 09:20 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
You must use different colored wire. Use green for the ground, white for the neutral, and some other color (or colors) such as black (or black and red) for the hot wires.
 
  #8  
Old 06-20-05, 11:15 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: US
Posts: 357
Thanks for the replies so far.

I'll be using four seperate #6 wires of the appropriate colors as mentioned by Racraft and also putting in the expantion section as brought up by Thinman.

Do either of you see any problem pulling these four #6 copper wires through 1" conduit. I will have two sweep elbows at the ends of a 25' run.

Finally, my hot tub manufacturer indicates a 60 amp 240V GFCI breaker is needed in the disconnect box. I see Square D (which is my main panel brand) makes a "Spa Kit" which comes complete with a disconnect box, 50 amp GFCI breaker and 50 Amp breaker for the main panel. Do you know if they make a 60 Amp "kit". I can't seem to find a larger amp kit on the internet. There is no way I'm going to not put in the recommended size breakers and risk ruining the warranty on an $8000 tub!!
 
  #9  
Old 06-20-05, 01:56 PM
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Near Lansing, Michigan
Posts: 10,530
You might actually want to price out individual parts at your local electrical distributor (not home depot, etc). The last "spa kit" I saw for sale was quite a bit more expensive than the parts would have been individually.
 
  #10  
Old 06-20-05, 02:01 PM
txdiyguy's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 249
Originally Posted by racraft
You must use different colored wire. Use green for the ground, white for the neutral, and some other color (or colors) such as black (or black and red) for the hot wires.
Actually, the wire will be either copper colored or aluminum colored. The insulation can be all black and you can mark the exposed ends with appropriately colored tape.
 
  #11  
Old 06-20-05, 02:19 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NA
Posts: 1,065
The reason your spa needs 60 amp is that it has more than one pump maybe as many as three. Do not install a 50 amp breaker and gfci. The contractor I've been working with prefers gfci disconnects instead of a gfci breaker for high end spas. He has experienced no call back for false tripping since using these type panels.

False tripping is a common headache with the "Spa Kits" and especially load center gfci breakers which we quit installing because of nuisance tripping. There isnt anything worse than going out to your spa in the winter and finding it frozen. The gfci disconnects are a little pricey but they solve the false tripping problem and they are an electricians dream as they have loads of space to bend the #6 awg wires and easy to understand diagrams for the DIYER. This is the type panel I'm speaking of though ours is a different make. http://www.spaspecialist.com/Merchan...gory_Code=GFCI
 

Last edited by Roger; 06-20-05 at 10:43 PM.
  #12  
Old 06-21-05, 11:03 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: US
Posts: 357
GFCI Disconnect Purchased

Roger--Went to the local electric supply house and it turns out they also recommended the GFCI disconnect you had a link to in your reply.

It was less money than a seperate GFCI breaker and disconnect box so I'm all set. I'm going to run 1 1/4" conduit into this box to simplify pulling the four #6 wires and due to the size of this box, it should be a piece of cake hooking up everything inside.

Before I went the electrical supply house this morning, I called Square D help line and asked if they made a 60 Amp spa kit. They only make the 50 amp kit now, but have been getting a lot of requests for the 60 amp kit most likely due the more powerful tubs now being manufactured. I suspect the 60 amp kit will be out in a year or so.
 
  #13  
Old 06-21-05, 11:16 AM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NA
Posts: 1,065
Glad to hear you found what you wanted. These gfci disconnects are the cats meow. Nice to hear square d is coming out with a 60 amp spa kit. generally I have been very pleased with their products.
 
  #14  
Old 05-20-06, 12:36 PM
Member
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 1
Originally Posted by Roger
The reason your spa needs 60 amp is that it has more than one pump maybe as many as three. Do not install a 50 amp breaker and gfci. The contractor I've been working with prefers gfci disconnects instead of a gfci breaker for high end spas. He has experienced no call back for false tripping since using these type panels.

False tripping is a common headache with the "Spa Kits" and especially load center gfci breakers which we quit installing because of nuisance tripping. There isnt anything worse than going out to your spa in the winter and finding it frozen. The gfci disconnects are a little pricey but they solve the false tripping problem and they are an electricians dream as they have loads of space to bend the #6 awg wires and easy to understand diagrams for the DIYER. This is the type panel I'm speaking of though ours is a different make. http://www.spaspecialist.com/Merchan...gory_Code=GFCI

I just purchased a Sandance Maxxus and they said that it requires a 3 wire set. Do you know if this panel is 4 wire or 3wire? if 4 wire can it be dropped to 3 wire?
 
  #15  
Old 05-20-06, 06:37 PM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Ontario Canada
Posts: 1,767
Run 4 wire to the panel, you need the neutral for the GFCI.

You can run 3 wire from that to the spa.
 
  #16  
Old 05-20-06, 10:18 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of Boston, MA.
Posts: 2,113
"There is no way I'm going to not put in the recommended size breakers and risk ruining the warranty on an $8000 tub!!"

Wire it correctly, as these posts have indicated.

THERE is NO WARRANTY on you or your friends. THAT should be your (and others) FIRST concern!
You can never put a price on SAFETY !!!!!!!!!!
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes