Electricity Can Kill


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Old 07-22-05, 07:05 AM
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Electricity Can Kill

The maintenance worker's death appears to be caused by a Lock & Tag violation.

Moral of the story: Always, Always turn off the circuit, and verify it's off, before you work on it.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local/...Electrocutions
 
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Old 07-22-05, 04:37 PM
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Yep, it only takes 1/10th of a AMP to kill if you are grounded properly..or should I say Improperly.

Also to the future helpers out their....NEVER take the word of another helper or electrician on the job when you ask them..is this circuit LIVE and they say no it is cut off.......always CHECK for yourself....


Another tip for you....always assume it is LIVE even when it is not and work with caution always and practice GOOD safety habits.

I love my trade but I tell plumbers and HVAC guys and Sheetrockers.....you guys are needed but I have never seen someone die from installing plumbing, HVAC or sheetrock unless they DROPPED it on themselves....

Electricity is GREAT......but treat it with respect !!! at all levels !!!
 
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Old 07-22-05, 07:23 PM
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Just got out of a safety meeting at our Utility. The topic today was a 22 year old lineman who was electricuted during an outage.

What happened?

A local doctor decided to fire up his generator without benefit of a transfer switch. Backfed thru the transformer and killed this kid.

I wonder if the doctor still thinks the couple of bucks he saved on his installation
was worth it.
 
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Old 07-22-05, 07:35 PM
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In my opinion, that local doctor should be charged with manslaughter.
 
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Old 07-23-05, 11:57 AM
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RAC....I am with you 100%...........I agree with the manslaughter against this doctor as well as charges bought against the contractor or LACK of one that did the actual install of the backup system.
 
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Old 07-23-05, 07:19 PM
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When I was a helper my electrician decided to turn on the circuit breaker to the dishwasher while I was hooking it up. Luckily I just got a minor shock. You have to keep tabs on other people on the job site as well.
 
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Old 07-23-05, 07:41 PM
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During the clean up for a hurricane the outside wiremen found one such back feed and as per policy called a supervisor out to deal with the home owner. The supervisor arrived and was briefed by the senior wireman. He went back to his sedan and opened it's trunk and pulled out a belt and gaffs that were lovingly maintained and yet obviously somewhat old. After he pulled the meter to render the drop safe he climbed the pole and cut the service drop down into the yard from the pole. As he was taking off his belt he said "Pass the word boys he gets no power back until his home has been signed off by a master electrician and the county electrical inspector." The icing was applied to the cake when both the local telco and the cable company disconnected service having been notified that the premise had an extreme electrical hazard that was effecting all connected utilities. The gas company even sent a trouble truck that applied an amp probe to the gas pipe. Finding no measurable current they left his gas intact. That home was not restored for several weeks. The owner was on his second generator before he got power back.
--
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Old 07-23-05, 08:39 PM
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This generator thing is pretty scary. I remember back a few years we lost power in my area for three days. We had a couple "handymen" if you will that back fed their dryer outlets to power their house from a generator. The natural reaction from several neighbors was to ask how do you do that. These guys told them to go purchase a typical 4 or 5 kw generator and they would hook it up for them. Nothin to worry about. I would try to tell them what they were doing was kinda stupid. Problem was they didnt want to hear it nor did they understand the explantion I desperately tried to give them. They didnt want anything to cause them to have to unhook their newly discovered electricity. I notified the utility the 2nd day. On the third morning our street was covered up with white pickup trucks from the local utility jerking the meters on all these houses running generators. Power was restored later that afternoon......to everybody but these people backfeeding their dryer outlets.
They had to pay to reconnect the meters. Needless to say they figured out who the "bad guy" was and some wont speak to me to this day. I suspect this is a big problem across the country. People just simply dont want to believe they are doing anything unsafe they want that electricity back!!!!
 
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Old 07-24-05, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by WFO
Just got out of a safety meeting at our Utility. The topic today was a 22 year old lineman who was electricuted during an outage.

What happened?

A local doctor decided to fire up his generator without benefit of a transfer switch. Backfed thru the transformer and killed this kid.

I wonder if the doctor still thinks the couple of bucks he saved on his installation
was worth it.

When ever I run my genny (USING A TRANSFER SWITCH) I still throw the main breaker in my panel just for added safety
 
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Old 07-25-05, 06:41 AM
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With all due respect to the deceased 22 year old lineman and his family and co-workers, I am sure the accident analysis revealed that he was working without benefit of proper grounds. Utility lineman do not (well, they should not) simply assume that a line is dead even if they can see both ends of the line and can see a visible open (in this case, most likely an open fused cutout). Proper work procedures require working behind grounds properly installed (properly grounded would be a short circuit and grounding technique). This would include grounds and short circuit jumpers on both the primary and the secondary (grounds on the primary only would not protect the secondary if the primary fuse or secondary breaker on the transformer was open). In the absence of such grounds, the lineman is to work it assuming that it is hot or could become hot (using the proper class rubber gloves, sleeves and all coverup devices (rubber line hoses, blankets, etc.). I'm sure in WFO's safety meeting this was pointed out. My point is that, if you are a utility lineman, you don't go looking for customer generator backfeeds into your system, you just exercise your normal work practices. The other story about the supervisor who pulled meters to isolate a customer's genset from the system sounds more like an urban legend story. If you don't open your main breaker, your generator tends to want to supply power to everyone else which would create an overload on the generator. The preferred practice in our area is for the lineman to slap some grounds on before working. If the grounds short circuit the generator, that's the best way to handle the situation (IMHO). Pulling the meters is an unnecessary and undeservedly considerate way of saving the customer's geneator.
 
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Old 07-25-05, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by alittle
With all due respect to the deceased 22 year old lineman and his family and co-workers, I am sure the accident analysis revealed that he was working without benefit of proper grounds. Utility lineman do not (well, they should not) simply assume that a line is dead even if they can see both ends of the line and can see a visible open (in this case, most likely an open fused cutout). Proper work procedures require working behind grounds properly installed (properly grounded would be a short circuit and grounding technique). This would include grounds and short circuit jumpers on both the primary and the secondary (grounds on the primary only would not protect the secondary if the primary fuse or secondary breaker on the transformer was open). In the absence of such grounds, the lineman is to work it assuming that it is hot or could become hot (using the proper class rubber gloves, sleeves and all coverup devices (rubber line hoses, blankets, etc.). I'm sure in WFO's safety meeting this was pointed out. My point is that, if you are a utility lineman, you don't go looking for customer generator backfeeds into your system, you just exercise your normal work practices. The other story about the supervisor who pulled meters to isolate a customer's genset from the system sounds more like an urban legend story. If you don't open your main breaker, your generator tends to want to supply power to everyone else which would create an overload on the generator. The preferred practice in our area is for the lineman to slap some grounds on before working. If the grounds short circuit the generator, that's the best way to handle the situation (IMHO). Pulling the meters is an unnecessary and undeservedly considerate way of saving the customer's geneator.
I was there. This I saw. What it sounds like I will not speak to. If you search the NIOSH www.CDC.gov/NIOSH sight you will find several generator back feed deaths. Some of them involve non utility workers such as tree trimmers that were working to remove fallen trees or limbs from power line right of ways in prepartion for restoring service. It only takes a tenth of an amp to kill. Short circuiting a generator only causes it's overload protection to open. Read the NIOSH reports on hurricane utility worker deaths and then tell me it can't happen.
--
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Old 07-25-05, 08:42 AM
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lol...thanks tom...I have been preaching the 1/10th of an AMP issue in my classes for nearly 17 years and in my posts here many times...glad someone agrees and uses it also....In the end......Generators need to be PROPERTY installed and as they become more popular due to more hurricanes and so on it is important that electricians today know EXACTLY how to install them correctly.
 
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Old 07-25-05, 02:27 PM
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Quote;

"With all due respect to the deceased 22 year old lineman and his family and co-workers, I am sure the accident analysis revealed that he was working without benefit of proper grounds."

"Proper" being the key word. My understanding is that the primary phase had broken. The linemen grounded the source side and pulled all the fused disconnects on the load side. The only one they missed was the one that killed him. Had they grounded the load side, he'd still be here.

Still, you are 100% correct. Safety procedures are designed to cover all the bases, even for the actions of the few know-it-alls that think Code is for everyone else.

I quess the main reason I brought this up is that about every 10th post seems to involve how to connect a generator. Everyone needs to remember that for every code in the book, someone had to learn the hard way.
 
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Old 07-25-05, 05:02 PM
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WFO,

Everyone needs to remember that for every code in the book, someone had to learn the hard way.
Sad but very true quote.........great post!
 
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Old 07-26-05, 06:54 AM
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Prime example in VA today...my home state and about 2 hours from me we have lost 4 lives due to electricity...sad day in VA.
 
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Old 07-27-05, 06:17 AM
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Without appearing morbid, do you know what happened?
 
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Old 07-27-05, 07:37 AM
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I believe E-Man is talking about the boy scouts that got nailed when they raised a metal tent pole into a power line.

The poster earlier is correct utility linemen dont go searching neighborhoods for gensets backfeeding. They also know that backfeed is present if it exists at the time. The utilities do however investigate backfeed if it is reported and they dont generally let the dust settle so to speak.
 

Last edited by John Nelson; 07-27-05 at 09:38 AM. Reason: Remove insult
 

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