wiring in garage

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  #1  
Old 07-31-05, 08:36 PM
pinkfloyd
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wiring in garage

i just wired from my house to my garage and did not hook up main power to feed garage yet.i used 12 2 underground wire and also put it in conduit pipe .i have a 2 ? in the garage i am just a foot or so short to go to main breaker box could i splice another wire to that one in a junction box then to breaker box i guees i have no choice.2nd ? do i have to put the conduit underground ? if i dont put it underground will frost hurt it ?????? it says on the conduit it is for above or underground.there was just an exstension cord there before and it never hurt that.???????????.
 
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  #2  
Old 08-01-05, 05:46 AM
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UF rated cable is suitable for direct burial, if you put it deep enough to comply with code. Deep enough depends on whether or not you have GFCI protection on the wire. You do not need the conduit. Some would say the conduit for this wire is a code violation. The only place you would need conduit is if any portion of the run is above ground. You might also want to use conduit if going in a flower bed or somewhere else where someone might dig.

I hope you did not use NM cable. NM cable cannot be used for this purpose. It will get wet and rot.


Now for the rest of your post. Why do you have breaker panel in your garage? With 12-2 cable you only have a single 120 volt circuit. You do not have enough power for a breaker panel, and having one is a wasted expense, and just complicates the issue.

Forego the breaker panel, and simply use the 12-2 cable for everything in the garage. Make sure that you provide GFCI protection to all receptacles.
 
  #3  
Old 08-01-05, 03:44 PM
pinkfloyd
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i used 12-2 uf-b with ground wire. most of the conduit is above ground will this hurt ??????????? will the frost short out the wire .should i put a gfci breaker in my house that will feed the garage????. should i use at least a 30 amp breaker.i am only running ( 4 )15 amp breakers in the garage one for the lights ,one for 2 recepeticals and one more for two others ,and one more to go to the pool pump .i know i could put them all together but will it hurt having a small breaker box?????
 
  #4  
Old 08-01-05, 04:53 PM
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The maximum breaker you can use with 12 gage wire is a 20 amp breaker.

The breaker box is, in my opinion, a waste of money as it will gain you virtually nothing. To have a breaker box in the garage requires a ground rod. Did you buy and install one? The breaker box also requires a separate neutral bus. Did you buy and install one?

If the is not buried deep enough, you need GFCI protection at the main panel.

Now as for the pool. You cannot run a pool pump off this setup, no matter what you do.

Go back to the drawing board. You need a real 240 volt sub panel in the garage, run with individual wires in conduit. You then need a special circuit for the pool off this sub panel.

I submit that this is not a job you should be doing. Sub panels by themselves have many requirements. Pools have many more requirements. I suggest that you have a professional electrician do this job for you.

What you have is not sufficient for either a sub panel or a pool.
 
  #5  
Old 08-01-05, 06:44 PM
pinkfloyd
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now the pool is ran from an extension cord to the 8 amp pump that i plug in the basement. it is ran off a 15 amp breaker.and works fine .as for the box in the garage it has a neutral bus which i wired neutral and equipment ground to the same bus.this is the same way the 100 amp service is in the basement. ?do i need a gfci breaker in the basement????????what if i run a seperate breaker to the pool? it will work i hope.that what is what my plan was .some breakers in my house are 30 amp with 12 wire and work fine . do i need to install a grounding rod???? what will happen if i dont .
 
  #6  
Old 08-01-05, 08:08 PM
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Originally Posted by pinkfloyd
some breakers in my house are 30 amp with 12 wire and work fine
That is a dangerous situation. An overload on one of those circuits could cause a house fire. I highly recommend that you replace those 30A breakers with 20A breakers on any circuit with 12 gauge wire.

The problem is not that it won't work the way you have it. The problem is that if (when) there is a problem, the breaker will not protect the wire properly. The consequence is a house fire.

It sounds from the previous posts that you have made several missteps in the process of installing this subpanel. The problems are almost too many to list. As suggested by racraft, it would be a good idea to have a professional electrician do this installation. If you choose not to do so, please buy or borrow some howto books on home wiring and read them carefully before retrying this project. Your goal should not be making it work; it should be making it work safely.
 
  #7  
Old 08-01-05, 08:18 PM
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In a sub panel like this, the ground and neutral MUST be separate. If you don't, you get current on the ground wire, a dangerous thing.

You cannot use a 30 amp breaker for 12 gage wire. If you do you create a fire hazard.

To be safe and legal your pool must be on a dedicated 20 amp GFCI circuit. This circuit MUST have an insulated ground wire.

You have multiple serious code issues that you are violating, creating a very unsafe installation. It sounds like your whole house electrical system needs inspection and correction.

Please do this before you kill someone or burn your house down. You'd be a fool to leave it this way.

It doesn't matter what works or what you presently have. Just because it works doesn't mean it;s safe.

Please correct these serious fire and life hazards.
 
  #8  
Old 08-01-05, 08:42 PM
pinkfloyd
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i have to correct myself most of the breakers in my house are 20 amp.thanks for all of the replys.so to power the garage it must be 20 amp max at the breaker box in my house it should also be a gfci breaker.will it power 3 15 amp breakers in the garage ????????????? do i need to ground the box in the garage with a grounding rod.
 
  #9  
Old 08-02-05, 04:20 AM
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I have said all I am going to say. It is not appropriate or correct to install a sub panel for this appolication that is only fed with a 12-2 line. You're in over your head and making a big mistake. Please do not proceed down this path.
 
  #10  
Old 08-02-05, 07:03 AM
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This whole project is just plain goofy. You might as well be asking for the best way to run wood wheels on your car.
 
  #11  
Old 08-02-05, 05:46 PM
pinkfloyd
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what type wire should i use instead of 12-2 do they make 10 gauge wire for underground please tell me how you pros would do this project
 
  #12  
Old 08-03-05, 09:16 AM
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Yes, they make UF cable in many sizes and configurations.

A professional would recommend that you install a 60A MLO subpanel in the garage. This subpanel would be fed from the main panel in the house by 6/3g UF-B cable burried 24" deep or by a set of black, white and red #6 THWN conductors with green #10 THWN ground in 1" PVC conduit burried 24" deep from the main panel to the subpanel. In the main panel, the #6 subpanel feeders would be protected by a 60A double pole breaker. If using UF-B cable, it should be protected by schedule 80 PVC conduit where it enters and exits the ground to a depth of 24" where there would be a 90 degree sweep elbow to turn the run horizontal underground.

He would install (2) 8 foot 5/8" copper-clad ground rods then connect them with #6 stranded bare copper wire using appropriate clamps, then connect them to the ground bus in the sub panel. At the subpanel, the ground bus and neutral bus must remain isolated! This may require purchase and installation of an optional "ground bar kit" for the subpanel, and will require removal of the bonding screw or strap from the neutral bar in the subpanel.

What I have explained here is really only a portion of the details to address. A complete listing would take 20 pages. I am including a link to a very detailed description of how install a subpanel in an attached garage. It is a good resource to learn from and to help plan a safe installation.

http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/homew...arageshowp.htm

The pool is a whole other project entirely. Trying to address that issue here would cloud the main point. For now, I will leave it at this: however your pool pump is plugged in, please make certain that it has GFCI protection. This is crucial for the safety of your pool occupants. There are many other grounding and bonding issues to deal with, but GFCI is absolutely required!
 
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