Ceiling Wires black,white,blue,green

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  #1  
Old 08-15-05, 06:45 PM
katie310
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Ceiling Wires black,white,blue,green

-CeilingFan+TrackLight=Xtra Wire no Power

I'm in the USA. I replaced my ceiling fan/light with a FXLighting Track.

From the ceiling are 4 wires (black, white, blue, & the green one which is wrapped around a screw).

From the FXLighting Track are 3 wires (black, white, & green).

A friend had initially installed it for me, but we had no succese because when I turned the light switch it blew the breaker.
At that time I believe he had blck=blck, white=white, blue=green. And he had completely detatched the green ground that was wrapped around the screw from ceiling.
2nd time he attached the green back to screw... green=green, blck=blck, wht=wht and capped blue w/tape. nothing
3rd time green=green, wht=wht, blue=blck, and capped black (ceiling) with tape. nothing
4th time and 2 weeks later so I'm a try to fix it. I'm going to try grn=grn, wht=wht, blck=blck and cap blue w/tape. Honestly I think he may had tried this allready.
I'll post soon as I get up there and see what I can do. Please help me. Thank you.
 
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  #2  
Old 08-15-05, 07:38 PM
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Hi there, I believe that your solution #4 is going to work for you. The blue wire could have been part of the ceiling fan fixture wiring for the ceiling fan light. Make sure your breaker is off when you are making these connections. If you had a neon test light ($3.00) you would be able to tell if your black wire up in the ceiling is hot (showing current with your wall switch in the on position) the breaker has to be on to test it. . Also if there is no current in the blue wire, I believe it should be capped with a wire nut and taped them pushed out of the way. But again, I am no pro and I am sure you will get some more advice from a professional on here. But again, your #4 sounds like the correct solution to me. Post back and let know! GOOD LUCK.
 
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Old 08-15-05, 07:45 PM
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I'm guessing that #3 should have been the solution that worked. Make sure that both the breaker and wall switch are on when you test. And your first experiment may have fried the switch, so replace it.

I note that green and bare wires should never, ever, ever, ever, ever be connected to anything but green and bare wires. Doing otherwise is a suicide attempt and about the worst mistake you can make with home wiring.
 
  #4  
Old 08-15-05, 08:23 PM
katie310
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Ceiling Wires Track Lites

Nope. I got up there and the green (ground/ceiling) was wired nut.
Green from light was on blue (ceiling).
Black = black
white = white

Man I honestly don't know what the heck I'm doing and apparently my friend didn't know either. But I untied the blue - green. And then I came to check the post to see you guys responded...

Question 1: I know where the breaker box is but I don't know which breaker is for upstairs? So I can't turn that off. But the lite switch is off course off. So am I safe to mess with them wires?

Question 2: I don't know how to do the following so does Wal-mart sell that neon test light ($3.00)?

Originally Posted by billie_boy
sounds like if you did have a fan and light on this circuit it would have had 1 live wire to the fan (and you ran this with a pull chain) and one neutral wire and one wire that was made hot with the switch (to run the light)...you need to find this wire....hook it to yoru black at your new light...and find the neatral and hook this to your white at the light...ground the green one to your green in the light....cap the other wire with a wire nut (this is likely a hot all the time wire) i am doing a little guessing here..but you should test each wire to ground carefully so you don't get shocked and with the switch in both on and off position
[ME Katie] Thanks for responding. I'm assuming that I test the blck & blue wire (ceiling) against the ground wire by rubbing them against the ground 1 at a time while someone else turns the light switch off/on?

Question: as long as the ground is wrapped around a screw in the beam (ceiling) does it automaticaly ground?
 
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Old 08-15-05, 10:47 PM
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Question 1: I know where the breaker box is but I don't know which breaker is for upstairs? So I can't turn that off. But the lite switch is off course off. So am I safe to mess with them wires?
No you are not safe relying on the light switch to remove power from the ceiling box. Don't touch anything until we sort this out. Get someone to help you find the right breaker that has at least a basic understanding of residential electrical.


Question 2: I don't know how to do the following so does Wal-mart sell that neon test light ($3.00)?
You absolutely need a voltage tester and the one you list is probably perfect for you to begin with, so go purchase it before you touch anything else.



Thanks for responding. I'm assuming that I test the blck & blue wire (ceiling) against the ground wire by rubbing them against the ground 1 at a time while someone else turns the light switch off/on?
Ok....now you are scaring me. This is suicidal and a good way to kill yourself. Never test wires in this manner or you are going to be short for this world.

As for the ground, right now it is the least of your worries lets not worry about that part yet.

You need to find someone who has at least a fundamental knowledge of residential electrical or go no further. Get some knowledgeable help and post back.

When you do, give us an inventory of the cables coming into the ceiling box and the wire colors of the wires in each cable. Also the switch box. Example a cable will have a black white and bare or a black white ,red and bare.

Is a white wire connected to the switch?

I'm not sure why you have a blue wire it should have been with the ceiling fan when you removed it. Or did you just remove the light from the ceiling fan?

I think maybe just the light if you still have a blue wire up there. In which case I agree with John... #3 sounds right but lets go back to the beginning and see if something has been missed.
 

Last edited by Roger; 08-15-05 at 11:05 PM.
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Old 08-16-05, 05:22 AM
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I'm wondering if maybe there is conduit involved here, and that a blue wire was ran rather than the conventional red.
 
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Old 08-16-05, 08:12 AM
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If you don't know which breaker turns off what you are working on, turn them all off. And then still test the wires before touching them.

Please quit guessing.
 
  #8  
Old 08-16-05, 11:34 PM
katie310
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I'm an idiot, but hey I'm still alive. ;D

I don't know where to start so I'll just get to the point but first & fore-most I truly thank all of ya for your help.
[It joys me to see the beauty of love that still exists in this world when it seems as if there is none left. 6 (or more) strangers took time out from their lives to help me and didn't even ask for money nor expected anything in return except for a response from me because ya were concerned. Puts a smile on my face and reassurense in my heart that there is hope, still. Thanks ya and keep up the love & good work!!!]

So, after I figured the ground wire was dead....

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[ME]Question: as long as the ground is wrapped around a screw in the beam (ceiling) does it automaticaly ground?


[HELPER]"if you mean if a ground wire is wrapped around a screw and screwed into your ceiling box...no it may nto be properly grounded....it should be hooke d directly to the ground wire from your cieling box and then it may be on a screw as well"


[ME]I had a fear of that because my friend just took everything apart (ceiling fan/light) wires and all, threw it down on the floor and just kept right on unscrewing the braces and snapin' wires. I knew I should had did this myself but o'well. Too late now... so I assume I can't fix it (the fix may be more electrical/technical). Guess I'll just keep waiting on the maintance men to come fix it. Thanks for all your help. ________________________________________________________________
.....I thought I'd just try one more thing (which was #1 in the instruction manual, did I mention I'm an idiot?)...........
Keep in mind while reading instruction '1' that next to '1' is a picture that depicts THREE wires from track lite connected to THREE wires from ceiling.

Instruction 1.Connect the black (hot) and white wire of the transformer to the black and white wires from the junction box using a wire nuts (supplied)

That is the only instruction in the whole 4 page manual that stated anything about connecting any wires. But there were three pictures that showed 3 wires connecting to 3 ceiling wires. Plus the track lite did have 3 wires on it black white green. So is it obvisious to anyone as to why I and my friend were both confused? NO? Okay so what? its my first time wiring anything together other than a car stereo and I know theres a ground, hot+, cold- wire regardless, right? Wrong! Apparently there doesn't always have to be a ground wire because I hooked the black to black and the white to white together. I capped the loose blue wire & capped the green wire from ceiling and also capped the green wire from track lite. I then said a quick prayer, and flicked on the switch and waa laa!!! There was light!!!!!!!!!! I was so happy but felt like a fool!!! I wasn't going to even post back on here being that I feel like an idiot and waisted everyones time including my own, if I would have just did what instruction '1' said to do then "dang it" I won't even mention. But when I checked my email and saw how many people had responded and where concerned, I had to post back because it really touched my heart for what ya have done and I'm all for doing whats good and whats right whenever I'm able and its only right for me to post/reply back. Once again thanks soooo much for all the help. Sorry if I've kept you too long this time also. But I will check back to see if I recieve any posts or responses to this email.

And just incase there could still somehow be a problem even though the lights work now, I will do as this HELPER requested.....

[HELPER] give us an inventory of the cables coming into the ceiling box and the wire colors of the wires in each cable. Also the switch box. Example a cable will have a black white and bare or a black white ,red and bare.

Is a white wire connected to the switch?

I'm not sure why you have a blue wire it should have been with the ceiling fan when you removed it. Or did you just remove the light from the ceiling fan?

I think maybe just the light if you still have a blue wire up there. In which case I agree with John... #3 sounds right but lets go back to the beginning and see if something has been missed.
______________________________________
There's no ceiling box or and don't know whats connected to switch on the wall. My ceiling has a 13ft long wooden beam that is about 5in thick and about 1ft wide. Wide meaning that it hangs from ceiling about 1ft while mounted to ceiling. Where the fan which had lights was connected to the beam, there is only a whole there where all the cables/wires hang from. I can't see what those 4 Wires are connected to. But the wires are:1BLACK 2.WHITE 3.LIGHT BLUE and the worth is a GREEN wire which isn't coming from the hole like the others, it is wrapped around a screw coming from the side of the wooden beam. Now as for the track lite: 1.BLACK 2.WHITE 3.GREEN

And also we had taken the fan off along with the lights. But my friend had did all of that stuff. So I don't know what the blue wire was previoulsy used for. I hope this is enough info to allow any one to become aware of any error that will prevent from any future troubles, if an error does exist.

Thanks again, and hey at least I'm still alive.
Katie
 
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Old 08-17-05, 05:45 AM
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Electricity can kill. You should never connect anything up without knowing whether the power is on or off. Having a switch in the off position does not guarantee that there is no power at the junction box in the ceiling. In many cases there is still power there.

Electricity can kill. Knowing which circuit breaker controls each and every receptacle, light, or appliance in your house or apartment could save your life someday. Shame on you for not having mapped out your electrical system shortly after moving in.

Take the time NOW to completely map out your entire electrical system. Learn exactly what breaker controls each and every location in your house or apartment, so that you can quickly turn off power to any one location, without shutting down the entire house.

Electricity can kill. Simply guessing at connections and employing the trial and error method of determining which wire is which is (sorry to be blunt) stupid. People have died doing this. You could have died doing this.

Electricity can kill. I suggest that you dismiss your helper and hire a qualified electrician to sort out your setup.

By the way, there are no positive and negative wires when working with alternating current (ac). The hot wire is both positive and negative. The neutral wire is grounded and acts as a return path for electricity to flow back to the source.

Electricity can kill. Please don't become another statistic.
 
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Old 08-17-05, 10:31 AM
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Hello Katie, I'm glad your still alive You had us worried though!

So, after I figured the ground wire was dead....
The green ground wire is supposed to be "dead". But it is an essential part of the wiring. It can save your life if you ever have a ground fault. It is there to carry fault (something wrong) current back to the panel and trip the circuit breaker. It is there for safety so you dont get electrocuted if the right circumstances exist. The ground wire lends nothing to whether or not your light works or doesnt work.


Apparently there doesn't always have to be a ground wire because I hooked the black to black and the white to white together. I capped the loose blue wire & capped the green wire from ceiling and also capped the green wire from track lite.
It would appear you do not have wiring with ground, since the green coming from the ceiling is connected to a screw in the beam. I hope tying the green wire to a screw in a wood beam wasnt someones idea for grounding the circuit. You really need to get someone to determine if you have a ground or ground wire for your wiring.
I sure would like to know where that blue wire goes. It is a bit of a mystery. I have some thoughts about it but thats of little use, just keep it capped.
When and if you find out whether you have grounded wiring or not you should try to get the green wire of the light track connected to the ground of your wiring.


There's no ceiling box and don't know whats connected to the switch on the wall.
You need to have some type of approved enclosure to contain your wirenut splices.
 
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