Outdoors wiring

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  #1  
Old 11-15-05, 01:04 PM
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Outdoors wiring

I need to run electricity to two locations outside my house. The first is to an above ground swimming pool. The location is 225 feet from the main power. I currently have 1" sch40 24" below ground running to the filter location. The electical needs here are a 20 amp circuit single pole for the filter and an additional 20 amp circuit for deck lighting.

The second location a garde shed and is 105 feet from the main power. I currently have 1 1/2" sch40 (got for free) running to that location. Here I want to run a lighting circuit and two 20 amp recepticle circuits. The only power demand would be for a plug in water heater in a near by chicken coop and hand power tools in the shed.

With the distances what gauge conductors do I need for each circuit? How many conductors do I need to run to each location? How many conductors can I legally bring through the conduit? Is stranded OK to use for the circuits on both?

I should also note that I have 1 1/2 sch40 runnning from the main panel to a junction box. The 1" pool conduit and 1 1/2" shed conduit meet at this junction box and then travel to either ends of the house and exit. With the need conductors, will I still have room to pull conductors for a future hot tub circuit? Distance would be within 50 feet to main power.
 
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  #2  
Old 11-15-05, 01:38 PM
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225 feet is quite a long way to go. You will need large wire to minimize voltage drop. I am computing number 4 wire for a 20 amp 120 volt load at that distance. You can minimize drop by running a multi wire circuit, but since the lighting is not on during the day, when the filter will likely be, it won't help much.

For the shed, I would also recommend a multi wire circuit, this time probably using number 10 wire. Number 8 would allow the full 20 amps, but I don;t think you'll need that.

I'm curious to see what others would recommend, given the distance to the pool.

just be careful. Pools, spas and hot tubs have very explicit code requirements. The slightest thing wrong will force you to redo the circuit when it comes to inspection time.
 
  #3  
Old 11-15-05, 02:56 PM
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Originally Posted by MGBROWN
I need to run electricity to two locations outside my house. The first is to an above ground swimming pool. The location is 225 feet from the main power. I currently have 1" sch40 24" below ground running to the filter location. The electical needs here are a 20 amp circuit single pole for the filter and an additional 20 amp circuit for deck lighting.
At that distance, I would consider looking for a 240V pump. If you stick with 120V, I agree with racraft that you should run a 20A multi-wire circuit using either #4 or #6 depending on the actual amperage draw of the motor. You would pull #4 black,black,white and #8 green or #6 black,black,white and #10 green. The 1" PVC40 can accept either configuration.

The second location a garde shed and is 105 feet from the main power. I currently have 1 1/2" sch40 (got for free) running to that location. Here I want to run a lighting circuit and two 20 amp recepticle circuits. The only power demand would be for a plug in water heater in a near by chicken coop and hand power tools in the shed.
20A multi-wire circuit using #8 or #10. No problems with conduit fill here.

With the distances what gauge conductors do I need for each circuit? How many conductors do I need to run to each location? How many conductors can I legally bring through the conduit? Is stranded OK to use for the circuits on both?

I should also note that I have 1 1/2 sch40 runnning from the main panel to a junction box. The 1" pool conduit and 1 1/2" shed conduit meet at this junction box and then travel to either ends of the house and exit. With the need conductors, will I still have room to pull conductors for a future hot tub circuit? Distance would be within 50 feet to main power.
Stranded conductors are okay and preferred in this case. The only place you could get into trouble is the 1-1/2 conduit from the main panel to the j-box. If you have 3 #4 (pool), 3 #6 (hottub), 4 #8 (shed + shared ground) there are 9 current carrying conductors which means de-rating would be required. Depending on the requirements of the hot tub, this may or may not be a problem. You could be required to bump up to #4 to the tub instead of #6. This would be acceptable, but would max out the 1-1/2" conduit fill.

Kudos to you for planning for the hot tub now rather than later!

By the way: be prepared to spend a lot on this amount of wire.
 
  #4  
Old 11-16-05, 06:35 PM
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Thank you for the help. The pump calls for 15 amps at 115 volts. The paperwork calls for a 20 amp circuit with #10 wire for a 100 foot run.
It is possible to reroute the 1" conduit. That would reduce the distance to 185 feet to the main panel. Would this help the situation and be worth the trouble?
Also, I know that I will be terminating the shed run into a sub-panel with its own ground. What do I do with the four wires on the pool circuit. Do I put a small exterior sub-panel by the pump with two seperate circuit running off of it?
One more clarification, what is meant by de-rating?
 
  #5  
Old 11-16-05, 06:50 PM
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Yes, you could run new conduit to the pool. Would it gain much? A little. Is it worth the work? That's for you to decide. You wouldn't use the same conduit, you would run new conduit.

Changing the distance to 185 feet might be enough of a change to allow you to go up to number 6 wire (but it would be close), but technically you still need #4 for that distance at 20 amps.

You run the four wires to a junction box and then separate them into two circuits. This junction box could be the first light, or it could be the box for the pump motor receptacle. You will need a 240 volt GFCI breaker for this. They are not cheap.

You did not originally state you wanted a sub panel at the shed. In my opinion this is overkill for your needs. Simply separate the four wires into two circuits, each with a single pole switch right inside the door and then run whatever you want on each circuit. IF you want a sub panel in the shed this is more work and more expense.

Please read several books before you begin. While it is good you are asking questions, and we are answering your questions, there are questions you are forgetting to ask and we are thinking that you already know or that we are forgetting to anticipate. Your projects are significant. I would get approval from your inspector before you start, just so that you will pass inspection the first time (or perhaps with a minor correction). You don't want to do a lot just to find out you did it wrong.
 
  #6  
Old 11-17-05, 03:59 PM
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Thank you again, I do hace a good working knowledge and background in dc theory, limited on the ac side. However, I catch on quickly. One last question, what book would you recommend? I have read through the NEC Code on occasion.
 
  #7  
Old 11-17-05, 04:18 PM
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The book Wiring Simplified is a good one to start with. and it's inexpensive. You can find others at your home improvement stores. Look through them. Ones with pictures tend to be easier to follow.
 
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