Is my stove (properly) grounded?

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Old 12-02-05, 10:24 AM
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Is my stove (properly) grounded?

Stove receptacle was just kinda flopping loosely so I secured it to the closest wall stud.Noticed that it's only a 3-prong receptacle(older rectangular balack plastic box) and that the stranded aluminium ground was simply folded back before entering the box.

The 3w (red,red/black,white)cable is made by Kaiser aluminum.Type SE no 798 is all I can make out.

Am I safe?
 
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Old 12-02-05, 10:55 AM
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Am I safe. This is a tough call. How old is the stove? How old is the wiring? Does the stove need a four wire connection (does it need a neutral)?

Years ago they wired stoves with three wire connections. They cheated and used the same wire for both the neutral and for the ground.

By today's codes new stoves are wired using four wire connections so that the neutral and ground are separated.

When you install a stove today (new or used) you are allowed to connect it to three wire connections or four wire connections, whichever you have. (If you have to put in a new connection, it must be a four wire connection.)

This sounds to me like someone used a four wire cable for a three wire connection. This is definitely not right, but it may not be unsafe.
 
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Old 12-02-05, 02:25 PM
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Thanks Bob for the quick reply.

BTW.....I love you guys

Originally Posted by racraft
Am I safe. This is a tough call. How old is the stove? How old is the wiring? Does the stove need a four wire connection (does it need a neutral)?
Stove new mid-80's.
Wiring is original..1950 something.

Not sure if the stove requires a 4w connection as it does have only a 3w plug on it(although I guess that doesn't answer the question)

I will take the back cover off and see if the terminal block allows for 4 wires.
 

Last edited by firhill; 12-02-05 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 12-02-05, 04:46 PM
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The block has only L1/N/L2 termination points..so I guess the three wire set-up is OK as it's all I can use.

I'm just curious though......how is the stove grounded?
 
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Old 12-02-05, 05:17 PM
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The block has those connections on it. There should be a green screw nearby directly in the frame where you would connect the ground wire. The stove should be grounded now by an internal connection which you would remove if you hooked up a proper ground.
 
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Old 12-02-05, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by firhill

I'm just curious though......how is the stove grounded?
The neutral and the ground terminate at the same place in the panel box and become one in the same - a ground, practically speaking.

But the real issue is when you have a technically 'ungrounded' stove or dryer on the old 3 wire system (2 hots plus the neutral) that also serves as the ground, is that the appliance case is technically always in the loop of having current flow through it). Always. Where, when the ground and neutral wires get separated in the new 4- wire design, you remove the jumper between the neutral and ground, in the appliance, and this causes the neutral current, like for the motor, timer, lights, etc.,...all that is on the 110 current, to never come in contact with the case of the appliance (UNlike what is happening with 3-wire), and ONLY in the case of dead shorts to the case would you ever have current flow into the appliance case and then to ground.

Did you follow this? Can you see how in normal operation how the 4 wire then would be safer?

I have already ran 10-3 w/gnd. (4-wire system ) to a 4-wire recepticle which would power a 3-wire appliance (dryer) and made it 4-wire by running the ground out of the box so that the appliance case itself could be green-wire grounded to the ground wire I exposed at the 4-wire box, in cases of a 3-wire dryer where the owner was too cheap to buy a 4-wire power cord. It's sort of an invention of mine that is safe, if one thinks about it. Even if someone touched the exposed ground wire, that would be no different than someone touching the 4-wire hooked up dryer case.
 
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Old 12-03-05, 10:34 AM
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Bob,Ecman..Thanks again for the explanations.

It's obviously been this way for 15-20 yrs when the stove was installed new.

Just so I understand everything properly ....

Is what I have OK code wise as I do have the capability to make this a 4w cct with a true ground by replacing the 3 prong receptacle with a 4 prong receptacle,connecting the disconnected ground on cable and breaking the neutral to ground strap within the stove itself?

Thanks again guys
 
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Old 12-03-05, 02:08 PM
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Yes.The idea is to disconnect the neutral from the ground, at the appliance.

Just make sure NOT to do something goofy like double up the neutral and ground wire, of the new 4-prong stove cord, on the neutral terminal. The ground wire, alone, gets screwed to the case of the appliance. And the neutral is now disconnected from the case when you remove the jumper.
 
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Old 12-03-05, 02:42 PM
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What you have is grandfathered, and okay by code. To upgrade to a 4 prong/wire would require you to replace the 3 wire cable with 4.
 
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Old 12-03-05, 05:05 PM
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Gotcha..thanks again all
 
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