[Electrical] Receptacle [Placement Location In Kitchen]

Reply

  #1  
Old 12-24-05, 04:12 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: washington
Posts: 73
Question [Electrical] Receptacle [Placement Location In Kitchen]

I recently had an electrical inspection on new contruction. The inspector says I need to install a receptacle 2 feet max from the edge of the sink. The proplem is there is no place to put it because there is a large window in front of the sink. There is no backsplash, it is only a couple inches from the countertop to the sill. There are cabinets below with doors. I know you cannot use surface box because of the possibility of water getting into the box.Hang it from the ceiling?
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 12-24-05, 04:27 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
Your going to have to come up with something. The sink counts as a break in the counter top. The first receptacle must be within two feet of the sink, and then you need one at least every four feet, with the last one being withing two feet of the other end of the counter top.

You can have something made as part of the counter top that will allow the receptacle to be vertical. It can also be sideways from the normal up and down configuration.
 
  #3  
Old 12-24-05, 04:34 PM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,455
How far is it from the edge of the sink to the edge of the window? IOW, what is the closest you can get a receptacle to the sink?
 
  #4  
Old 12-24-05, 08:23 PM
txdiyguy's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Dallas, Texas
Posts: 249
I noticed in your other post that you have an island. In an island that is all one height (doesn't also have a higher section for a bar), receptacles are placed on the cabinet wall just below the countertop. Maybe you could do a similar thing for your kitchen sink base with large window over it. Perhaps you could have your cabinetmaker leave a clear spot to locate one just below the counter within 24" of the edge of the sink. Instead of a 2" stile between drawers, he could make it about 4" wide. This would be enough to put a box in vertically.

Also, you should consider a pneumatic switch for the waste disposer. With your situation, it sounds like you're going to have the same problem placing a switch for it, too.
 
  #5  
Old 12-25-05, 12:48 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: washington
Posts: 73
Good info. Thanks, I can try the cabinet stile. I can also consider a counter top monument. ( I think monument is the correct word.)
 
  #6  
Old 12-26-05, 01:12 PM
Member
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: NA
Posts: 1,065
There is no backsplash, it is only a couple inches from the countertop to the sill.
Consider a despard device from pass and seymour they are mounting straps with cover plates for receptacles and switches or combinations of both. They are designed for narrow clearances. You might give the tech people a call and see if one of these will install between the countertop and window sill and be code compliant for kitchen. I personnally have never used one yet so am not familiar. Might be worth a call to them....http://www.passandseymour.com/pdf/R24.pdf
It does look like you will need at least 2" to install a duplex receptacle.
 
  #7  
Old 12-26-05, 01:29 PM
Member
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 510
How wide is the window? How wide is the sink? Maybe the easiest thing would be to put in a wider sink (maybe one of those 3-bowl sinks)?
 
  #8  
Old 12-29-05, 12:18 AM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by axis
I recently had an electrical inspection on new contruction. The inspector says I need to install a receptacle 2 feet max from the edge of the sink.
Can anyone suggest why this is necessary?

I would think the likelyhood of danger is increased,the closer a receptacle is to a sink.
 
  #9  
Old 12-29-05, 06:43 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
The receptacle placement rule for kitchen counter tops in the US is similar to the rule for placement of receptacles in many other rooms (living room, bedrooms).

The idea is that you should be able to plug in and use a device anywhere along the wall of a room, or anywhere on the counter top. In rooms, lamps have six foot cords. If receptacles are properly spaced, you can put that lamp anywhere along the wall of a room and still plug it in without need of an extension cord. Toasters, coffee makers and other kitchen appliances have two foot cords, requiring receptacle spacing of every four feet and within two feet of each end of the counter top.
 
  #10  
Old 12-29-05, 10:41 AM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: port chester n y
Posts: 2,117
I have a rather unique solution that MAY be possible, but only if the counter-top is a veneer covering a wood/pressboard base. The solution requires drilling holes in the counter-top.

My idea(?) is to fasten a Bell-box to the top of the counter-top with 1/4 machine-screws with nuts & washers that thread onto the screw threads underneath the counter-top ,and "pull" the box down against the counter-top so the box is set firmly in place.

Anyone who believes this "concept" deserves immediate rejection is welcome to do so----- but it could be possible that someone can improve upon the arrangement--- Won't Know if you Don't Try--- FLW's?
 
  #11  
Old 12-29-05, 11:55 AM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 69
Originally Posted by racraft
Toasters, coffee makers and other kitchen appliances have two foot cords, requiring receptacle spacing of every four feet and within two feet of each end of the counter top.
Thanks Bob...

I will be moving the sink to within one foot of a short wall(3' to door opening) that has only one existing (countertop) receptacle on it's own cct.

I was planning to change it to a switch for the under cabinet lights and kill two birds with the one stone so to speak.(I thought the receptacle presented a danger being so close to sink with limited counterspace)

I guess that's a NO-NO then?

Sorry..I don't mean to seem like I'm hijacking this thread...just wasn't sure if I should start a new one when problems seem similar/relevant.
 
  #12  
Old 12-29-05, 04:30 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,623
In the US any countertop space 12" or more in width would require a GFI protected receptacle.

Also adding the lighting load to the small appliance countertop circuit is also prohibited.
 
  #13  
Old 12-29-05, 05:30 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 69
So if I put the sink 11" from the wall I wouldn't have to keep the receptacle and I could use it for the cabinet lights then?
 
  #14  
Old 12-29-05, 06:08 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 176
Site

This site deals with a lot of inspection and code issues:
http://www.iccsafe.org/cgi-bin/ultim...ubb=forum;f=11
 
  #15  
Old 12-29-05, 06:20 PM
pcboss's Avatar
Forum Topic Moderator
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: Maryland
Posts: 14,623
Regardless of the spacing you still cannot place lighting loads onthe small appliane countertop circuits.
 
  #16  
Old 12-29-05, 08:51 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 69
I guess my question should be....

If I have a (dedicated) countertop receptacle that and I remove the receptacle from the box and replace it with a switch that controls the under cabinet lights is it considered to be a small appliance countertop cct as it has no outlet to plug an appliance into.
 
  #17  
Old 12-29-05, 09:02 PM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 69
Capt.....Thanks for the link.

(3) Kitchen Receptacle Requirements. Receptacles installed in a kitchen to serve countertop surfaces shall be supplied by not fewer than two small-appliance branch circuits , either or both of which shall also be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the same kitchen and in other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). Additional small-appliance branch circuits shall be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the kitchen and other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). No small-appliance branch circuit shall serve more than one kitchen.

If I understand correctly the kitchen must have two small appliance circuits or is a branch circuit a different animal?
 
  #18  
Old 12-31-05, 08:49 AM
Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: port chester n y
Posts: 2,117
A "Branch-Circuit" is the wiring that extends beyond the "last" over-current protective-device in the house electrical system. Fuses and circuit-breakers are over-current protective devices.The "First" OCPD would be the "Main-breaker". The "second" could be a OCPD that protects "Feeder-conductors" that extend from the "Main panel" to a "sub-panel". The "last" OCPD would be a C-B that protects a circuit that extends from a panel to an "outlet" where there is a connection to the "load" that consumes the power that the POCO bills you for.

There are specfic types of B-C's--- your issue is the required B-C's for the "small-appliance" loads-- toasters, etc., used in kitchens.There are specific Code-Articles for "Branch Circuits"
 
  #19  
Old 01-03-06, 06:46 PM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 74
At the risk of beating this topic to death, I need clarification before I start to button up my kitchen rewire.
Currently, I have installed (count them ladies & gents) 4 dedicated 20A countertop circuits. But due to in-wall piping and a window 36" wider than the sink, I can't install any outlets within 2 feet of the sink.
Is this truly spelled out in the code? I can't seem to find it.
Thanks.
 
  #20  
Old 01-03-06, 07:24 PM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,455
The only way around it is your inspetor is a bit lenient. Up to 30" or 32" I would say he should let it slide considering the circumstances. Most would.

The whole thing is in one of the most basic, yet misunderstood, sections of the code. NEC ~ 210.52
 
  #21  
Old 01-04-06, 07:08 AM
Member
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 131
It doesn't actually reference a distance from the sink.

210.52 (C) (1) Wall counter spaces. A receptacle outlet shall be installed at each wall counter space that is 300 mm (12 in.) or wider. Receptacle outlets shall be installed so that no point along the wall line is more than 600 mm (24 in.) measured horizontally from a receptacle outlet in that space.

I would think the inspector should accept putting one as close to the edge of the window as possible. After all, that is where the "wall space" begins in your case. However, it doesn't pay to get into a pissing contest with the inspector. Sometimes it is easier to accomodate him/her to make life easier. You have to choose you battles.
 
  #22  
Old 01-04-06, 04:52 PM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,455
You left out the exception.

210.52(C)(1)
Exception: Receptacle outlets shall not be required on a wall directly behind a range or sink in the installation described in Figure 210.52.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes