Routing Romex and other questions
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Routing Romex and other questions
Can I run romex across the roof rafters? I would like to run some wires in my attic and would like to staple the wires to the rafters supporting the roof near the lowest part of the attic. Is this acceptable? I am also going to be putting some romex in the garage where I currently have 1/4" perf board. Is it generally acceptable to run romex behind perf board? Or do I need to run armored cable? I promise I won't ever stick anything sharp into the holes and pierce the cable.
I'm also relocating the meter on my house and have read in several places the grounding wire gets hooked up to the water line. Problem is there are no water lines near the new meter location. I do plan to drive a 8' grounding spike for the new meter panel as well as one for the new subpanel. What is the requirement for grounding the water main? One depiction showed the main ground connected to a water pipe which was then connected to a grounding spike.
I also don't think the water meter has a grounding strap connecting both sides of the meter, either. The water meter is out by the street with a good 20 feet of copper pipe underground between the meter and the house. Does that make any difference?
Thanks. You guys are saints.
Steve
I'm also relocating the meter on my house and have read in several places the grounding wire gets hooked up to the water line. Problem is there are no water lines near the new meter location. I do plan to drive a 8' grounding spike for the new meter panel as well as one for the new subpanel. What is the requirement for grounding the water main? One depiction showed the main ground connected to a water pipe which was then connected to a grounding spike.
I also don't think the water meter has a grounding strap connecting both sides of the meter, either. The water meter is out by the street with a good 20 feet of copper pipe underground between the meter and the house. Does that make any difference?
Thanks. You guys are saints.
Steve
#2
routing romex and other questions
Local regulations would dictate whether or not you could externally mount the cables to the rafters. Ideally you should run them 1 1/2"+ from the surface of the wood in case a remodel requires a ceiling, etc.
If you solemnly promise....No don't run the romex behind the perf board. Your promises aren't any good to the next home owner who will invariably drive a nail into the cable. The cable, likewise has to be run through the studs at least 1 1/2" from the surface, or you could run it through conduit, but I don't think your perf board would allow it.
I believe above the border all bonding is done via water pipe. But with the advent of pvc primary water lines, there is no grounding available, so a grounding rod is required. Here again, check with local authorities to see what they will require. It will be easier to do it their way first rather than doing it again. Good luck.
Larry
If you solemnly promise....No don't run the romex behind the perf board. Your promises aren't any good to the next home owner who will invariably drive a nail into the cable. The cable, likewise has to be run through the studs at least 1 1/2" from the surface, or you could run it through conduit, but I don't think your perf board would allow it.
I believe above the border all bonding is done via water pipe. But with the advent of pvc primary water lines, there is no grounding available, so a grounding rod is required. Here again, check with local authorities to see what they will require. It will be easier to do it their way first rather than doing it again. Good luck.
Larry
#3
WOW! Lots of issues here.
Yes, if the attic is unfinished you can run the NM along the roof rafters down near the crease. Make sure they are up a few inches from the ceiling joists.
You can snake wires behind wall finish without support but be very careful in this case.
NO ground wires should be connected to ANY water pipes from devices!!
You MUST run a water bond/ground from the MAIN panel to the water pipe, and in your case it mutst be connected within 5' of where it enters the house, and the meter must be jumped around with another clamp, IF it is in the house. As long as the meter is more than 10' away from the hosue outside nothing needs to be done with it.
You DO in any case need a ground rod to supplement the water pipe.
You do not and must NOT add a second ground rod for ANY sub-panel within the same structure.
This is just a start for the codes involved. I truly hope you have a good grasp on what you are doing before you start this project. The way it sounds now you need to do quite a bit more research.
Here is a good link regarding services and grounding:
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/homew...eter/index.htm
Yes, if the attic is unfinished you can run the NM along the roof rafters down near the crease. Make sure they are up a few inches from the ceiling joists.
You can snake wires behind wall finish without support but be very careful in this case.
NO ground wires should be connected to ANY water pipes from devices!!
You MUST run a water bond/ground from the MAIN panel to the water pipe, and in your case it mutst be connected within 5' of where it enters the house, and the meter must be jumped around with another clamp, IF it is in the house. As long as the meter is more than 10' away from the hosue outside nothing needs to be done with it.
You DO in any case need a ground rod to supplement the water pipe.
You do not and must NOT add a second ground rod for ANY sub-panel within the same structure.
This is just a start for the codes involved. I truly hope you have a good grasp on what you are doing before you start this project. The way it sounds now you need to do quite a bit more research.
Here is a good link regarding services and grounding:
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/homew...eter/index.htm
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You state that you are "re-locating the meter". This statement implies that the that the enclosure that contains the Service Dis-connecting Means remains in place.
IF the Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC) that connects the Service Neutral Conductor to the Grounding Electrodes ( water-service line, rods ) terminates in the meter-socket, it's best that the GEC connects to the Service Neutral inside the enclosure that contains the Service Dis-connect, instead of inside the meter-socket.
The NEC permitts Grounding the meter-socket to the Service Neutral.
Good Luck, & Learn & Enjoy from the Experience!!!!!!!!
IF the Grounding Electrode Conductor (GEC) that connects the Service Neutral Conductor to the Grounding Electrodes ( water-service line, rods ) terminates in the meter-socket, it's best that the GEC connects to the Service Neutral inside the enclosure that contains the Service Dis-connect, instead of inside the meter-socket.
The NEC permitts Grounding the meter-socket to the Service Neutral.
Good Luck, & Learn & Enjoy from the Experience!!!!!!!!
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
Yes, if the attic is unfinished you can run the NM along the roof rafters down near the crease. Make sure they are up a few inches from the ceiling joists.
Originally Posted by chandler
Local regulations would dictate whether or not you could externally mount the cables to the rafters. Ideally you should run them 1 1/2"+ from the surface of the wood in case a remodel requires a ceiling, etc.
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
You can snake wires behind wall finish without support but be very careful in this case.
Originally Posted by chandler
If you solemnly promise....No don't run the romex behind the perf board. Your promises aren't any good to the next home owner who will invariably drive a nail into the cable. The cable, likewise has to be run through the studs at least 1 1/2" from the surface, or you could run it through conduit, but I don't think your perf board would allow it.
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
NO ground wires should be connected to ANY water pipes from devices!!
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
You MUST run a water bond/ground from the MAIN panel to the water pipe, and in your case it mutst be connected within 5' of where it enters the house, and the meter must be jumped around with another clamp, IF it is in the house. As long as the meter is more than 10' away from the house outside nothing needs to be done with it. You DO in any case need a ground rod to supplement the water pipe.
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
You do not and must NOT add a second ground rod for ANY sub-panel within the same structure.
It doesn't appear to be mentioned in Wiring Simplified. Does NEC forbid grounding the subpanel?
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
This is just a start for the codes involved. I truly hope you have a good grasp on what you are doing before you start this project. The way it sounds now you need to do quite a bit more research.
In other words, I'm a professional - just like you guys. I just have a slightly different background.
I've been researching a lot of the electrical for about a year now and have a full electrical diagram for the house. I know how to wire up three- and four-way circuits and how to size an electrical box and an electrical circuit. I've got all the right tools but with starting the project I'm coming up with questions I haven't thought about, mainly about standards of practice, not with the technical aspects of it. I could go with overbuilding everything (armored cable everywhere, etc.) and asking less questions but would rather go with what makes sense. My inspector is a good guy but I don't want to go to him with questions I should know the answers to and if he asks me questions I want to be able to provide them with some sense of authority. That's why I'm asking about running the romex here. Some of these things aren't explicitly explained in Wiring Simplified or in the NEC and the only real way to find out is to ask guys like you who do this day in and day out. There is no substitute for that kind of experience. I may ask what seems to be a newbie question sometimes but it is because I am committed to doing it right that I ask the question. In all my technical training the instructors told me the only dumb question is the one you don't ask. I'd rather be thought dumb and do it right than do it wrong.
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
Here is a good link regarding services and grounding:
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/homew...eter/index.htm
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/homew...eter/index.htm
Steve
#6
So it sounds like you are doing your homework. That's good.
I must say with all respect, your engineer/electronics background is about 10% helpful in the world of line voltage electrical wiring. Practical knowledge and hands on experience cannot be taught in a classroom, and knowledge of the code is just as, if not more, important. These things are far removed from even related fields.
That being said, the fact that you can wire three and four way's puts you far beyond most DIY'ers and even some early electricians.
The ground rod issue. You do not need to separate them so much if you do not want. 6' apart is fine and if the wire is run only to the rods, and is kept free from harm, #6cu is all that's needed. You can then run a #4cu to the water pipe.
As far as the sub-panel goes, assuming it is in the same structure, all you need to do is run the ground with the feeder as intended. No sole ground rod should be hooked to it. If you did sink a rod for it you would need to bond the new rod to the others, this makes this an unwise and unneeded choice.
Good luck and keep up the good work.
I must say with all respect, your engineer/electronics background is about 10% helpful in the world of line voltage electrical wiring. Practical knowledge and hands on experience cannot be taught in a classroom, and knowledge of the code is just as, if not more, important. These things are far removed from even related fields.
That being said, the fact that you can wire three and four way's puts you far beyond most DIY'ers and even some early electricians.
The ground rod issue. You do not need to separate them so much if you do not want. 6' apart is fine and if the wire is run only to the rods, and is kept free from harm, #6cu is all that's needed. You can then run a #4cu to the water pipe.
As far as the sub-panel goes, assuming it is in the same structure, all you need to do is run the ground with the feeder as intended. No sole ground rod should be hooked to it. If you did sink a rod for it you would need to bond the new rod to the others, this makes this an unwise and unneeded choice.
Good luck and keep up the good work.
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
I must say with all respect, your engineer/electronics background is about 10% helpful in the world of line voltage electrical wiring. Practical knowledge and hands on experience cannot be taught in a classroom, and knowledge of the code is just as, if not more, important. These things are far removed from even related fields.
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
That being said, the fact that you can wire three and four way's puts you far beyond most DIY'ers and even some early electricians.
Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
The ground rod issue. You do not need to separate them so much if you do not want. 6' apart is fine and if the wire is run only to the rods, and is kept free from harm, #6cu is all that's needed. You can then run a #4cu to the water pipe.
Steve
#8
You must use the water as your main electrode. This requires #4. You can then either continue to the rods with the #4, or tap #6 to the rods, or use #6 to just the rods from the panel (or meter in some areas).
The run to the water must remain unspliced. If you tap from the rods to the #4 these taps are "bonding jumpers", not GEC's.
The run to the water must remain unspliced. If you tap from the rods to the #4 these taps are "bonding jumpers", not GEC's.