help with fusebox!


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Old 01-01-06, 02:18 PM
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help with fusebox!

Hi, my house is a bit old, about 30 years, so for electrical it uses those old boxes with glass screw-on fuses instead of breaker switches. Anyhow, I was vaccuuming today, and i plugged the vaccuum to an outlet and turned it on. It quickly died on me, so i plugged it to another outlet. After that, I found that the first outlet I plugged it to doesn't work anymore, for anything. Neither did the bathroom and one of the bedrooms!

Downstairs at the fusebox, it says that the outlet, the bathroom and 2 bedrooms are connected to one fuse, but i know that only 1 of the 2 bedrooms were not working. So I take out the fuse. Went back upstairs, and sure enough the bedroom that had power is now out as well. Ok so I go downstairs and replace the fuse, but then nothing has changed! The working bedroom still works, but the bath, room and outlet are still not! I have no idea what happened or why only part of it went dead! Please help.

Thanks,

Acemanic
 
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Old 01-01-06, 02:28 PM
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oops sorry for the double post, i timed out! please delete the previous one.
 
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Old 01-01-06, 03:44 PM
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You have an open connection. Most likely an open neutral, although it might be an open hot wire. An $8 receptacle tester will confirm this for you. The open is possibly a failed back stab connection on a receptacle. Your task is to find and repair the failed connection. You will need to check each and every receptacle, light or junction box on the circuit. You must check those working and those not working. The problem will be at the last working receptacle or the first not working one.
 
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Old 01-02-06, 10:33 AM
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Thanks for the reply. Can someone explain to me what actually happened? What is a 'open' and a 'back stab'? It was mentioned that I had to actually go and test receptacles and then repair the problem. Well, I'm not really sure what to look for. Is it a physical problem, like a wire broke in half? I didn't exactly do anything other than turn on my vaccuum cleaner, so I have no idea. What should it look like when I see the problem, or 'open'?

Thanks a lot!

Acemanic
 
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Old 01-02-06, 11:15 AM
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Most likely, you won't be able to "see" the problem unless the wires/receptical has gotten hot enough to burn, as it is probably a connection that has become loose. An "open" is simply where a circuit is not completed due to wires being either disconnected or loose. Vacuum cleaners do not cause opens, but they are frequently the last thing used before an open occurs, because they are a large electrical draw.

The cause of an open is a poor connection. A "backstab" is a hole in the back of a receptical or switch which allows the electrician to just stick the wire in and be done, rather than wrap the wire around a screw and tighten the screw. Unfortunately, backstabs often provide a poor connection, and lead to opens. The open occurs eventually due to the repeated heating and cooling of wires that are poorly connected. All wires heat up when current is pulled...this is normal. Poor connections cause more heat...this is bad. The best scenario is an open occuring. The worst scenario is a fire occuring. Large electrical draws (vacuum, iron, space heaters, etc) heat the wires more, thus often get the blame for opens.



As you check recepticals/switches/whatever is on the circuit (with the fuse out, of course), look for backstabs and wirenuts.

Move the wires that are in backstabs to the corresponding screw (there should be a slot beside the backstab hole that you stick a small screwdriver in to release the wire). You will need to bend a hook in the end of the wire to wrap it around the screw (you may need to strip more insulation off to do this). The hook should go clockwise around the screw so that the hook tightens as the screw is tightened down.

Tug on the individual wires in wirenuts, and tug on the wirenut itself. If anything about it seems in the least bit loose, redo the wirenut by taking it apart, restripping the wires, and installing a new, appropriately sized nut (packages of wirenuts say what the capacity of the wirenuts is).


NOTE: If you find aluminum wiring, do nothing...post back with this finding.
 
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Old 01-02-06, 09:16 PM
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wow that was VERY informative. Just what I needed. Thanks a bunch! Btw, I did as you said, and all is good now, everything is back on track, no aluminum wires or anything. But what is wrong with aluminum wires?

Thanks again,

Acemanic
 
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Old 01-03-06, 06:29 AM
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Aluminum wiring requires devices rated SPECIFICALLY for connection to aluminum, usually marked Cu/ALR or similar, special wire nuts, etc.

Basically, there is a lot more that can go wrong...especially for a DIYer who doesn't know the specific issues with it.

Use of small guage aluminum wiring has proven to have been a mistake...way too many problems. Now, heavier guage aluminum is fine, so long as special care is taken when it is installed.


I only mentioned it because you mentioned your house being 30ish years old, putting it toward the end of the aluminum wiring time period (quite common in 60s to mid 70s homes).
 
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Old 01-03-06, 11:12 AM
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Originally Posted by Acemanic
But what is wrong with aluminum wires?
The heating/cooling cycle of small gauge aluminum wire causes expanding and contracting of the splices and the connections work loose over time. The aluminum then oxidizes in the tiny gaps between spliced wires and makes the problem even worse as aluminum oxide is an electrical insulator. This leads to arcing and lots of heat (called a "series" fault) which will eventually start a fire.

This type of problem is rare with copper wire and properly installed larger gauge aluminum service wires.
 
 

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