Arch Fault vs GFCI breaker


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Old 01-04-06, 07:05 PM
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Question Arch Fault vs GFCI breaker

I am renovating 4 bedrooms as well as installing new master bath. Also upgrading to larger service panel. Code now calls for ARCH Fault breakers for all bedroom circuits (please correct me if I'm mistaken). I understand Arch Fault breakers but do they also provide same protection as GFCI breaker? I need to use GFCI protection for Fan/light installed in a shower and putting GFCI breaker is the easiest way to accomplish this - BUT - since this new bath is essentially in the Master Bedroom, do I need an Arch Fault instead? Basically when in doubt which one do I use? Why can't they provide both safety protections in one breaker??

What is the future for Arch Fault usage? Is the code going to be expanded as indicated a couple of years ago? Makes beakers a lot more $$$!!!!

Thanks!
 

Last edited by Snowmiser; 01-17-06 at 05:27 PM.
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Old 01-04-06, 08:26 PM
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Arc fault breakers do provide a level of GFI protection. However it is about 30 mA, not the .5 mA that a GFI breaker or receptacle provides.

The requirements for arc faults will probably expand through the next Code cycles.

Air bags add cost to cars too, but are required. It about life safety, not $$.
 
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Old 01-04-06, 11:55 PM
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You could install a "faceless" GFCI (looks like a GFCI duplex receptical minus the two recepticals) in the bathroom to provide the GFCI protection to that light/fan.

If you did that, you could feed the light/fan off the arc fault circuit by bringing power to the junction box which the faceless GFCI is in, then running power to the switch(es) for the light/fan, then to the light/fan itself. In fact, I think I would just install the faceless GFCI in the same box with the switch(es), that way it is obvious what it is for, and where to reset it if/when necessary. Just make sure the power coming in connects to LINE, and the power out connects to LOAD.


All this said, I'm not sure that the Arc fault protection requirement for bedrooms extends to bathrooms inside bedrooms. I do not think it does. Thats a question for the code gurus though.
 
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Old 01-05-06, 12:01 AM
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We've SEEN countless lives saved thanks to airbags. Sure like to hear of something OTHER than the hundreds of nuisance tripping reports I hear about with arc-fault breakers. Somebody invented them and paid the Code to make them mandatory. That's the world we live in. It would be nice if I didn't truly believe that. But I follow the Code, 'nuff said. You're welcome to try to convince me otherwise.

That said, if you need GFCI protection on a circuit that also needs AFCI protection, I would first try to separate the circuits. That not being possible, you can run the circuit through a GFCI receptacle (or faceless GFCI) before going to the part that requires GFCI protection, and use an AFCI beaker at the panel.

Be prepared for a 50% chance of the resetting of the GFCI (which you test monthly, right?) to nuisance-trip the AFCI breaker.
 

Last edited by MAC702; 01-05-06 at 10:47 AM.
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Old 01-05-06, 03:36 AM
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Originally Posted by MAC702
We've SEEN countless lives saved thanks to airbags. Sure like to hear of something OTHER than the hundreds of nuisance tripping reports I hear about with arc-fault breakers. Somebody invented them and paid the Code to make them mandatory. That's the world we live in. It would be nice if I didn't truly believe that. But I follow the Code, 'nuff said. You're welcome to try to convince me otherwise.
Totally agree!
This is a hotly debated topic. Why do you think after such a long time so many areas have not yet adopted AFCI requirements.


BTW, NO AFCI protection is required in bathrooms, even master baths.
 
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Old 01-05-06, 04:40 AM
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Any nuisance trips that get reported are classified as "live saving" trips to the industry. They will use this information to convince the NFP people to keep the AFCI rules going.
Sort of like the little old lady slowly crossing the street in front of the Yuppie in the Mercedes. The light changes against her mid stream. He incessantly honks his horn. She raps his bumper with her cane, and his air bag deploys. Did it save his life, hardly.
 
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Old 01-05-06, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
Totally agree!
This is a hotly debated topic. Why do you think after such a long time so many areas have not yet adopted AFCI requirements.
To be honest, I didn't know if I'd get flamed on or not by you pros for saying that, but I was in the mood...
 
 

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