Three Way Switch with Receptacle After
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Three Way Switch with Receptacle After
Hello all. Thanks much for assistance on previous questions. I am trying to add a receptacle that is always live after a three way switch that ends at a light.
The diagram I have obtained shows the following.
The first box (switch) receives the white and black wires plus ground. The diagram shows that the white is pigtailed and leaves the box unattached to the switch. The black is pigtailed with one end leaving the box and the other attached to the bottom left of the switch.
Here is where my first question comes in. The diagram then shows two blue wires, one attached to the top left of the switch, and one to the top right. They are separate wires and leave the box to go to the next switch where they are connected in the same fashion. This leave four total wires leaving the box. One black, one white, and two blue. I will describe the rest of the diagram in a second. But standard wire has either two or three wires. So I am at a loss as to how to run those two blues moving forward with standard 14/2 or 14/3 wire. ???
As for the rest of the diagram, the second box has the two blues coming in along with the black and white. The white is pigtailed with one one leaving and going to the light. Another white from that pigtail leaves the box at the bottom and goes to the receptacle. The two previously mentioned blues are connected to the top left and right of the second switch. It then shows a "red" wire connected to the bottom left of the switch and leaving the box on top to go to the light for connection. The black is just pigtailed and continues on to the receptacle. (BTW this diagram was from the Residential Wiring book which contains the 2005 codes.)
Leads to my second question. Althought it shows the wire listed as red, my 14/2 is black and white. Does the color matter? If so, how do I address that?
Thanks for bearing with me if you have. I have done quite a bit of wiring in the home with single pole switches and three ways without any problem when those things are at the end of run. My main problem is trying to add a receptacle after a switched light as above. Same as for after a standard switch that goes to an end run light. I could use any help in continuing power on to additional receptacles. I have scoured the web, but I can't seem to find any diagrams that show these switched lights with a receptacle after that is always live.
Thanks in advance for any of your comments.
Paul
The diagram I have obtained shows the following.
The first box (switch) receives the white and black wires plus ground. The diagram shows that the white is pigtailed and leaves the box unattached to the switch. The black is pigtailed with one end leaving the box and the other attached to the bottom left of the switch.
Here is where my first question comes in. The diagram then shows two blue wires, one attached to the top left of the switch, and one to the top right. They are separate wires and leave the box to go to the next switch where they are connected in the same fashion. This leave four total wires leaving the box. One black, one white, and two blue. I will describe the rest of the diagram in a second. But standard wire has either two or three wires. So I am at a loss as to how to run those two blues moving forward with standard 14/2 or 14/3 wire. ???
As for the rest of the diagram, the second box has the two blues coming in along with the black and white. The white is pigtailed with one one leaving and going to the light. Another white from that pigtail leaves the box at the bottom and goes to the receptacle. The two previously mentioned blues are connected to the top left and right of the second switch. It then shows a "red" wire connected to the bottom left of the switch and leaving the box on top to go to the light for connection. The black is just pigtailed and continues on to the receptacle. (BTW this diagram was from the Residential Wiring book which contains the 2005 codes.)
Leads to my second question. Althought it shows the wire listed as red, my 14/2 is black and white. Does the color matter? If so, how do I address that?
Thanks for bearing with me if you have. I have done quite a bit of wiring in the home with single pole switches and three ways without any problem when those things are at the end of run. My main problem is trying to add a receptacle after a switched light as above. Same as for after a standard switch that goes to an end run light. I could use any help in continuing power on to additional receptacles. I have scoured the web, but I can't seem to find any diagrams that show these switched lights with a receptacle after that is always live.
Thanks in advance for any of your comments.
Paul
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Do yourself a favor...don't go this route. To do this, you will need to obtain 14-2-2 wire or 14-4 wire, either of which is hard to come by in small quantity. (I enquired about this cable locally and it was available in 250' rolls only...and EXPENSIVE!) 14-2-2 has black & white, plus red and white with red stripe, 14-4 has black, red, blue, and white. Not sure where they got the two blues from...Maybe they were using conduit.
Instead, at the first switch, run a 14-3 directly to the second switch, AND a 14-2 directly to the receptical. This one box will be a little more full (so use a deep box there), but the rest will be greatly simplified. Proceed as follows:
Abbreviations:
14-2 bringing in power is C1
14-2 to receptical is C2
14-3 between switches is C3
14-2 to light is C4
First switch is SW1
Second switch is SW2
At SW1 box:
Wirenut C1 black, C2 black, and black pigtail together. Connect pigtail to SW1 common screw.
Wirenut C1 white, C2 white, and C3 white together and push into back of box.
Connect C1 black to one SW1 traveler screw and red to other (irrelevant which is which).
Wirenut all grounds together with bare pigtail to SW1 ground screw.
At SW2 box:
Wirenut C3 white to C4 white and push into back of box.
Connect C3 black and red to SW2 traveler screws.
Connect C4 black to SW2 common screw.
Wirenut all grounds together with bare pigtail to SW2 ground screw.
At receptical box
C2 black to gold screw, white to silver screw, ground to green screw.
At light
C4 black to light black, white to light white, ground to light ground.
Remember...any metal boxes need to be grounded, so add an additional grounding pigtail to run to a green screw on any metal boxes (you will have to provide the green screw).
Instead, at the first switch, run a 14-3 directly to the second switch, AND a 14-2 directly to the receptical. This one box will be a little more full (so use a deep box there), but the rest will be greatly simplified. Proceed as follows:
Abbreviations:
14-2 bringing in power is C1
14-2 to receptical is C2
14-3 between switches is C3
14-2 to light is C4
First switch is SW1
Second switch is SW2
At SW1 box:
Wirenut C1 black, C2 black, and black pigtail together. Connect pigtail to SW1 common screw.
Wirenut C1 white, C2 white, and C3 white together and push into back of box.
Connect C1 black to one SW1 traveler screw and red to other (irrelevant which is which).
Wirenut all grounds together with bare pigtail to SW1 ground screw.
At SW2 box:
Wirenut C3 white to C4 white and push into back of box.
Connect C3 black and red to SW2 traveler screws.
Connect C4 black to SW2 common screw.
Wirenut all grounds together with bare pigtail to SW2 ground screw.
At receptical box
C2 black to gold screw, white to silver screw, ground to green screw.
At light
C4 black to light black, white to light white, ground to light ground.
Remember...any metal boxes need to be grounded, so add an additional grounding pigtail to run to a green screw on any metal boxes (you will have to provide the green screw).
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Thanks
Thanks much. I had started drawing up a solution and your advice easily helped me finish it. I did want to clarify something though.
In SW1, on the third step, you mention:
Connect C1 black to one SW1 traveler screw and red to other (irrelevant which is which).
I am pretty sure you meant:
Connect C3 black to one SW1 traveler screw and red to other. Since the C1 black was already pigtailed and connected to the SW1 COM.
Thanks very much for your well written reply and the assistance. I learned quite a bit from it!
Paul
In SW1, on the third step, you mention:
Connect C1 black to one SW1 traveler screw and red to other (irrelevant which is which).
I am pretty sure you meant:
Connect C3 black to one SW1 traveler screw and red to other. Since the C1 black was already pigtailed and connected to the SW1 COM.
Thanks very much for your well written reply and the assistance. I learned quite a bit from it!
Paul
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Paul,
I didn't read all of chirkware's response but the beginning sounds correct. You and he can work out the details.
I'll try to address some of your other questions.
In the US it is allowed to use cable assemblies (NM type cable) or individual wires run in conduit for branch circuits. Some locations do not allow NM cable, and of course NM is not allowed outside or in paces where it might get damaged.
If using conduit it is possible to run individual wires of any color, and the manufacturers make many colors. NM wire could also be made in all kinds of color combinations, but that would be expensive. To avoid the necessity of many different cables, you are allowed (with some restrictions) to re-identify the individual wires in NM cable.
The diagram you are looking at is not showing you cable assemblies (NM), but rather is showing you individual wires. It is up to you to substitute colors appropriately if using conduit, or use cable and use the wires in the cable. The colors in the diagram are used to make it easier to follow.
As chirkware indicated, for the diagram you have you would need 14-2-2 or 14-4. And using either of those cable assemblies would allow you to follow the diagram and be correct.
I didn't read all of chirkware's response but the beginning sounds correct. You and he can work out the details.
I'll try to address some of your other questions.
In the US it is allowed to use cable assemblies (NM type cable) or individual wires run in conduit for branch circuits. Some locations do not allow NM cable, and of course NM is not allowed outside or in paces where it might get damaged.
If using conduit it is possible to run individual wires of any color, and the manufacturers make many colors. NM wire could also be made in all kinds of color combinations, but that would be expensive. To avoid the necessity of many different cables, you are allowed (with some restrictions) to re-identify the individual wires in NM cable.
The diagram you are looking at is not showing you cable assemblies (NM), but rather is showing you individual wires. It is up to you to substitute colors appropriately if using conduit, or use cable and use the wires in the cable. The colors in the diagram are used to make it easier to follow.
As chirkware indicated, for the diagram you have you would need 14-2-2 or 14-4. And using either of those cable assemblies would allow you to follow the diagram and be correct.
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Originally Posted by PZimniewicz
In SW1, on the third step, you mention:
Connect C1 black to one SW1 traveler screw and red to other (irrelevant which is which).
I am pretty sure you meant:
Connect C3 black to one SW1 traveler screw and red to other. Since the C1 black was already pigtailed and connected to the SW1 COM.
Connect C1 black to one SW1 traveler screw and red to other (irrelevant which is which).
I am pretty sure you meant:
Connect C3 black to one SW1 traveler screw and red to other. Since the C1 black was already pigtailed and connected to the SW1 COM.
You inferred correctly that it should be the C3 black and red (C1 doesn't even have a red!). I typed that pretty quick and should've read it once more before submitting it.
Aren't three way switches great?!? (Throw in a few four ways next time for some real fun! My dining area has four entrances and four switches!)