Bible vs. NEC Handbook


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Old 01-19-06, 04:40 AM
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Bible vs. NEC Handbook

Catchy thread title, huh?!?
Well, the Bible and the NEC Handbook are similar, in that, most people can't really understand either, at least, not the way they are worded.
So someone eventually came up with a Bible that was written in laymen's terms, to help us better understand its contents.
My question is, in your opinion, what book could you suggest, one that
will better translate for me what exactly is written in the NEC Handbook?
I have a "Stanley" home wiring book, but it doesn't cover such things as how to upgrade and install new service to one's home, ie., how to run new wiring from the weatherhead all the way down to connecting new wiring to the existing branch circuit wiring.
Any books out there that don't cost $100.00 dollars?
Anything at the local library, detailed enough to cover most NEC
information? Okay, thanks in advance!!
 
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Old 01-19-06, 04:55 AM
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The reason that yoor book doesn't include directions and information on upgrading your service and modifying the weatherhead and service lines is that these tasks are generally not for the do-it-your-selfer. These are tasks better left to a professional.
 
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Old 01-19-06, 05:08 AM
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Absolutely. And that's why I have a licensed electrician coming to my place to do the work, but I just wanted a book to help me better understand just exactly what will be taking place, so I can ask questions while we are working together(if he'll let me help in any way), and hope that he won't get so annoyed that he walks off the job I want to learn more about your profession. I respect the electrical profession and all who have spent so many years learning their trade. I'm gettin' kinda old, and I know that it would take too many years to learn all that I want to learn about the electrical profession.
Maybe it's not fair to you all that I'm looking for a "quick fix" to all my questions. And I certainly know that a DIY book will never make me an electrician. I realize you want us all to be safe, and I can respect that, for sure. I was just hoping for a suggestion of a book that was more detailed than my "Home Wiring" book. Thanks.
 
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Old 01-19-06, 06:14 AM
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One reason you aren't going to find what you are looking for is that the things that apply to installing a service are scattered all through the code book. What needs to be done often is specific to the installation at hand and may not be the same on the next installation. This is just one reason why you can't just walk in off the street and test for an electrical license with no experience. And, layman's terms just don't exist for some things. There's just no way to simplify things like load and fault current calculations that may determine equipment selection.

If you want to learn, watch the pro. While most are willing to talk about what they are doing it's tough to concentrate on your work if you are being bombarded with questions. "Helping" may or may not be an issue with the pro's liability insurance. Don't be offended if he/she says "no".

UNK
 
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Old 01-19-06, 07:21 AM
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Lots of books

You can look at "Wiring Simplified" and "Wiring a House". I got both these books as wells the 2005 NEC and the Stanley book. All books were recommended from this site and I have used all. I recommend all. Each has had its place. Although I cannot say I have read the NEC from cover to cover, there are sections that I believe can be ignored for the average homeowner. Hope this helps.
 
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Old 01-19-06, 08:10 AM
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It's important to know that the power-capacity of the Service, measured in kilowatts, is the ampacity of the Service Conductors X 220 volts. If the ampacity of the SC's = 200, then the power available for the connected loads = 200amps X 220 volts = 44,000 watts = 44 Kilowatts (KW).

The system is "Grounded" by a conductor that connects the Service Neutral ( White or bare conductor) to the "Primary" Grounding Electode which most often is a metallic water-service line.The conductor that connects the Neutral to the water-service line, and thereby Grounds the system, is the "Grounding Electrode Conductor."

The electrician will also install a "Supplemental" Grounding Electrode, in addition to the "Primary" Grounding Electrode, which most often is a copper rod driven down 8 ft .

If your's is an "older" house ,a possible DIY project would be connecting GFI protective-devices where needed.This will offer maximum saftey from what could be fatal shocks-to-Ground in locations where moisture is prevelant. Such locations?--- outdooors, receptacles adjacent to sinks, certain interior floor areas.

Good Luck, & Learn & Enjoy from the Experience!!!!!!1111
 
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Old 01-19-06, 08:53 AM
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Originally Posted by PATTBAA
The system is "Grounded" by a conductor that connects the Service Neutral ( White or bare conductor) to the "Primary" Grounding Electode which most often is a metallic water-service line.The conductor that connects the Neutral to the water-service line, and thereby Grounds the system, is the "Grounding Electrode Conductor."
Seeing as more and more new homes are built using PEX and/or CPVC/PVC lines, I don't think it's appropriate to call or use a metallic water line as a ground.

And I seem to recall reading something that it's been found the minute electrical current that can travel through this line caused the pipes to corrode through electrolisys and even when available, water lines should not be used as a ground. Is it even code legal to do so? I sure wouldn't want to grab a water line and get a shock!
 
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Old 01-19-06, 09:03 AM
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Pendragon,

In the US, if you have metal water pipes, they MUST be bonded to your electrical system ground connection. If your water pipes extend outside the house and into the ground at least ten feet, then they are the primary means of grounding your electrical system and MUST be used.

There is no ambiguity here. There is no room for other choices. These are very important. You do not want your metal water pipes to not be connected to your electrical system ground.
 
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Old 01-19-06, 09:33 AM
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Pengragon
Rex Caluldwell's book "Wiring a House" goes through the steps needed to change a service. It's available from amazon
Ollie
 
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Old 01-19-06, 09:35 AM
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Originally Posted by racraft
Pendragon,

In the US, if you have metal water pipes, they MUST be bonded to your electrical system ground connection. If your water pipes extend outside the house and into the ground at least ten feet, then they are the primary means of grounding your electrical system and MUST be used.

There is no ambiguity here. There is no room for other choices. These are very important. You do not want your metal water pipes to not be connected to your electrical system ground.
Ah, so it's not a matter of, these pipes make a handy path to the ground, they must be used if they go at least 10' into the ground.

Gotta, say, haven't seen an occasion when water pipes were 10' in the ground and can't think of a reason you'd ever want to bury them that deep.

What if they are not 10' in the ground?
Or did you mean 10' of pipe in contact with the ground, not vertically like a ground rod would be?
 
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Old 01-19-06, 10:02 AM
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Not ten feet deep, ten feet into the ground. It can be a horizontal ten feet.
 
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Old 01-19-06, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Willg54
but I just wanted a book to help me better understand just exactly what will be taking place, so I can ask questions while we are working together(if he'll let me help in any way), and hope that he won't get so annoyed that he walks off the job
My rates:

$50 an hour.
$75 an hour if you ask questions.
$100 an hour if you help.
 
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Old 01-19-06, 04:46 PM
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MAC720, your rates made me laugh out loud. That was great.

PATTBAA, thanks for the detailed information.

And to all others who shared suggestions of books(I'll look for them) and other significant information, thank you very much!!
 
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Old 01-21-06, 08:23 AM
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Water ground

The connection to the water pipe is not for a ground. It is a bond. You water line is not your primary grounding electrode. It is only bonded to prevent a potential for voltage between 2 or more different sources that have contact with earth ground. Building steel, water or piping lines, and slab supports shal be bonded together.250.104 a(1)-d(3)
 
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Old 01-21-06, 08:35 AM
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Originally Posted by nfsus
The connection to the water pipe is not for a ground. It is a bond. You water line is not your primary grounding electrode. It is only bonded to prevent a potential for voltage between 2 or more different sources that have contact with earth ground.
Sorry, but if the water pipe feeding the house is metallic, and is in contact with earth for at least 10', then it absolutely IS the primary grounding electrode.
See 250.52(A)(1) & 250.53(D)
 
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Old 01-21-06, 08:49 AM
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Water ground

Sorry to not mention this, but I was talking about the non metallic water line. In my area we have not seen anything other than that for years. The local codes for the plumbing will only allow copper to extend 3 feet out of the house then PVC from that point on. That is why we can not consider it a primary ground. I do forget that in other places it is different. My oversite. Thank you.
 
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Old 01-21-06, 09:29 AM
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Is the "local Code" a municiple Code, a County Code, or a State Code?

If the "Code" allowed extending the metallic water-service line another 7 ft, the premises would have a NEC approved Grounding Electrode. Perhaps the authors of this Code are oblivious to the importance of a reliable and effective Grounding system for a premises, which requires at least two separate Grounding Electrodes.

The primary purpose of Code-requirements is saftey. There are secondary Code- purposes for the sake of personal comfort and convenience.
 
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Old 01-21-06, 10:07 AM
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Water ground

Until a few years ago, they did not want you bonding the ater lines. The plumbing inspector told the plumbers to cut it off. One town here still does that. They had a fit with the state inspector about it. Local city inspectors do what they want. We have to rely on the state inspectors to enforce the code and there are 3 for the whole state. The local guys could, but dont. It is a sad thing.
 
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Old 01-21-06, 01:18 PM
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Who are "they" who have rejected "Bonding water-lines"? I presume the lines referred to are metallic, unless the it's an absurd rule that prohibits the impossible-- Bonding NON-metallic lines.

ALL metallic surfaces that conduct electricity, especially gas and water lines, MUST be Bonded if there is a possibilty that the metallic surface may come into contact with an electric conductor anywhere in the premises.

There is no better way to stress the importance of this then to refer you the "adjacent" "Electric-sparks while drain-cleaning" Posting .

The plumber could have been "fried"--he was wearing gloves-- when he inserted the metal "snake" of a cleaning machine into a drain-line and there was a severe arc when contact was made between the pipe and the snake.

This is exactly what would occur if the machine was properly Grounded in accordance with the NEC, and the metal drain-line was "energized" and NOT AT GROUND POTENTIAL !
 
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Old 01-21-06, 03:25 PM
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water lines

THEY are the local inspectors for the small cities. You would do it and they would tell the plumbers to cut them off. I am aware of the requirements.
 
 

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