Newbie needs circuit breaker help
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Newbie needs circuit breaker help
Hey guys. Newbie here and I have a question. Tonight I decided to map out the circuits on my electrical panel since only a few were labeled. Turned on all lights and went to the box to trip some breakers and see where they led me. I kept hearing popping behind the panel so I removed the cover. Behind the breaker to the hot water heater, one of the few that were labeled, I saw some sparks. I tripped that breaker immediatley. It did not feel hot to the touch. It is a dual breaker, not sure if that is what it is called but it has one handle connected to 2 30 amp breakers. I'm not an electrician but this also is wired a little strange. It has the black wire connected to the top 30 amp and the white wire connected to the bottom 30 amp and not running to the neutal bus. We have been in this house for a year and this circuit has never tripped the breaker. So I have a few questions....... 1) Does a failing circuit breaker spark before it goes out so this needs replacing, and 2) Should this white wire be running to a breaker instead of the neutral bus? The black and white wire are both coming from the same jacket. If it was a problem wouldn't it have cause some major issues before now.
Thanks in advance and sorry for such a long post.
Chris
Thanks in advance and sorry for such a long post.
Chris
#2
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First, it is completely normal that the white wire was landed on the other half of the 2-pole 240V breaker. That is allowed when using a premade cable like Romex and it is feeding a 240V device that doesn't need the neutral. I always make the wire red with tape or a marker, and that MIGHT be required anyway...
As for sparks and "popping," unless you can see something obvious (without having to move things around and put anything into the panel) it sounds like an electrician should take a look at it to make sure everything is secure and tight. Are all the breakers nicely tight in their positions?
As for sparks and "popping," unless you can see something obvious (without having to move things around and put anything into the panel) it sounds like an electrician should take a look at it to make sure everything is secure and tight. Are all the breakers nicely tight in their positions?
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Thanks for your super fast reply Mac. I checked the breakers for any wiggle. A few on the opposite row of breakers have a little wiggle to them but all of the breakers on the sparking side are good and tight. It flipped the breaker back on and it immediately started arcing again. I can see the blue between the breakers and the noise. It would last a few seconds and then stop for about 10 seconds and then start back up. Trying to move the breaker did not increase the arcing.
Thanks again for replying so quickly.
Chris
Thanks again for replying so quickly.
Chris
#8
I-T-E is now a division of seimens they do have some recalls for arcing and overheating of their load centers but these load centers were manufacturered back in 1986. If you look on the door cover inside panel just above the wiring diagram you will see a number some thing like H2586....if there is an 86 for the last two numbers those load centers have been recalled for many years now. Because the busses and other components were overheating.
reason I asked if you had the maker of the circuit breaker is to make sure it was an approved breaker and not a generic not approved for the panel.
reason I asked if you had the maker of the circuit breaker is to make sure it was an approved breaker and not a generic not approved for the panel.
#9
If you are comfortable working in the panel when you get the time I would turn the main breaker off and remove that breaker and if possible move it to another location and reconnect it. If there is a lot burn and pitting where you removed the breaker from the busses I would certainly consider having that panel replaced.
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Thanks again Roger. On the panel door the only number I see that would be close to what you are describing is stamped F684. They have catolog numbers of M2040MB1200F/M2040MB1200S.
Thanks,
Chris
Thanks,
Chris
#11
Thanks Chris those are good numbers. Your panel was made in June 1984. does that sound about right? according to I-T-E's code that is what it should be.
Is there any room in the panel to get that breaker relocated?
Is there any room in the panel to get that breaker relocated?
#13
Chris you have a 20 space 200 amp panel (sounds like this is a modular home).
Not too many mobile homes have 200 amps
It would also appear that the panel accepts single pole tandem breakers since it has the capability of 40 circuits...ie...2040.
do you have any tandems in that panel at present? They look like a 15 or 20 amp breaker only there are two breaker toggles instead of one. dont confuse this with your hot water breaker. these tandems only are half the size of that hot water breaker and are two breakers on a single pole case.
Not too many mobile homes have 200 amps
It would also appear that the panel accepts single pole tandem breakers since it has the capability of 40 circuits...ie...2040.
do you have any tandems in that panel at present? They look like a 15 or 20 amp breaker only there are two breaker toggles instead of one. dont confuse this with your hot water breaker. these tandems only are half the size of that hot water breaker and are two breakers on a single pole case.
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Thanks Roger and Mac. Removed the offending breaker today. The bus it was connected to did not show signs of burns or pitting at all. The breaker clamps on the other hand were pitted and burned. Apparently the clamps inside the breaker were spread too far apart so it wasn't getting a good contact. I had never worked in the panel and was pretty proud I didn't kill myself. Had to beat my chest to the wife and declare "I am man." Didn't take her 5 minutes to say to me "we have no hot water." She gets me everytime. So, I guess the surges either killed the coils or the thermostat. Once again guys, thanks for taking the time, especially Roger until almost 2 in the morning to help me figure this out.
Chris
Chris