grounda & neutrals in pannel

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  #1  
Old 02-08-06, 11:44 PM
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grounda & neutrals in pannel

just bought an older house and the home inspector pointed out that some of the grounds and neutrals were on the same bar. I have heard this was done in a lot of older homes, there isn't any room on any of the 4 bars ( I think they are 4 bars of 8 ) only 2 or 3 of them are doubled up, and not same wire G and Neut....I also have a breaker with a wire doubled up, but there isn't must on that circut, like I said no more room, is there a fix for this, what about those grounding bars sold at the depot or lowes, could I install a longer one w/ more terminals ??...what do I do about the doubled breaker ? in the pannel there are 32 breakers some are dryer - range etc where the grounds are all twisted and only 1 wire goes to groung bar, how are they all filled up if several of the ground wires are all twisted into one ??...thanks
 
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Old 02-09-06, 12:52 AM
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Originally Posted by rentprop1
home inspector pointed out that some of the grounds and neutrals were on the same bar.
So there was nothing wrong with the house? He was just making idle chit-chat?



I have heard this was done in a lot of older homes
It's still done to this day by many electricians.


only 2 or 3 of them are doubled up
This could be a problem. Can you post a picture?


I also have a breaker with a wire doubled up, but there isn't much on that circuit
Probably just fine.


is there a fix for this?
For what?



what about those grounding bars sold at the depot or lowes, could I install a longer one w/ more terminals ??
Yes, that is what I do.


what do I do about the doubled breaker ?
It almost certainly is listed for this.


how are they all filled up if several of the ground wires are all twisted into one ??
A don't know what you mean. Some pictures would explain a lot.
Can't tell whether your h.i. knew his stuff. Many don't. Okay, most don't.
Okay, I just never knew one who did. But that doesn't mean that yours didn't.


So, how many panels ahead of this panel till you get to the meter?
 
  #3  
Old 02-09-06, 04:30 AM
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There may be nothing wrong with having grounds and neutrals to the same buss. This is allowed at the location in the house where the ground and neutral are connected.

If a circuit breaker is listed for two wires to be attached to it, then there is nothing wrong with two wires attached to it. You did say the circuit was lightly loaded, which is probably why it was chosen to be doubled up. If you want to do something about it, you could install a new breaker for one of the circuits.

In most panels it is allowed for there to be two ground wires under a single screw on a buss bar. Neutral wires are not allowed to be doubled up. If your panel does not allow grounds to be doubled up, or if you have neutral wires doubled up then you should address the issue.
 
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Old 02-09-06, 10:52 AM
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listed

Clarification:

"listed" is technical jargon from the NEC.

When I wrote that the breaker almost certainly is listed for two conductors in its clamp, this means that it is quite likely that the breaker has been designed, tested, and approved to have two conductors of the specified sizes connected to it under one clamp.

In other words, the mere presence of two conductors fed by one clamp on a CB is almost certainly not a problem.
 
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Old 02-09-06, 11:17 AM
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Originally Posted by bolide
Clarification:

"listed" is technical jargon from the NEC.

When I wrote that the breaker almost certainly is listed for two conductors in its clamp, this means that it is quite likely that the breaker has been designed, tested, and approved to have two conductors of the specified sizes connected to it under one clamp.

In other words, the mere presence of two conductors fed by one clamp on a CB is almost certainly not a problem.
Only about half of the breakers currently sold are listed for two conductors per terminal. Many of the older ones are not suitable for two conductors on one terminal. If the OP could provide the manufacturers number for the breaker we could check to be sure.
--
Tom Horne
 
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