Gfci tripping

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  #1  
Old 02-16-06, 05:04 PM
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Gfci tripping

I ran power from my house to my shed about 150 ft away....used #10 wire for the long run on a 20amp breaker....I hooked it up to a GFCI recp....and then powered my lights off the load side of the GFCI.....Every time I flip the switch to turn on the lights the Gfci trips...I ran my power to the GFCI and Spliced my nuetral on to the lights.....I then jumped the power to my switch from the load side of the GFCI and connected the hot to the lights...I checked all connections in my lights and everything looked fine....I did use MC....could I have overtightened my box connectors and crimped the wire....what do I need to check? Thanks for the help...
 
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Old 02-16-06, 05:20 PM
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I am still dizzy reading your post, so I will just try to give you what you should have done. Your #10 should be connected to the line side of the GFCI. Hook your load white wire to the side with the light colored screws and the black wire to the dark screw and your grounding wire to the green screw. If you are going to your switch first, tie the white wire from the GFCI and from your light together with a b-cap. Attach the black wire from the GFCI to one of the switch screws, and the black wire from your light to the other switch screw and grounding wire to the green screw. At your light hook the black to black and white to white and grounding wire to green screw. After you do this, post back and let us know if it works or not.
Personally I would run the lights off the line side of the GFCI, as lighting, especially fluorescent, does not like GFCI's, and you can have false trips due to the starter creating a fluxuation in current, which is why the GFCI trips naturally.
Run your downline receptacles from the load side to protect them.
 
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Old 02-16-06, 05:23 PM
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Draw out the circuit as you wired it. Start at the hot wire leaving the house. Follow the wire all the way to the light, and then back from the light on the neutral. Make sure that every single electron that flows out on the hot wire into the line side hot of the GFCI, and then out the load side hot, also returns to the panel through the GFCI (from load to line) on the way back. Make sure there is no alternative path back to the panel on the neutral that does not go through the GFCI.

If that's all okay, then you probably have an accidental contact between the neutral wire and the grounding wire on the load side of the GFCI. Make sure that none of those electrons can escape to ground anywhere.

If you can draw out the circuit for us and post it on a photo hosting web site somewhere, we could review it for you.
 
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Old 02-16-06, 07:14 PM
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Hello ,
My guess is , you installed porcalaine fixtures (little round ones made of plastic). If so drop them down, try the switch, if it holds, be more carefull
tucking the wires in the box.If not , remove any suspect staples that may be contacting coductors.

If flourescentare they new or used) Remove the fixture wiring (not the fixture) and splice thru as if the fixture were there. Hit the switch if it holds then you may have a bad fixture.Buy new ballsasts and install.

DON"T make it any more complicated than it should be.
Knowledge and common sense.

"GFI" = ground fault interupter. "GFCI"=Ground fault circuit interupter,(Big difference.).
 
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Old 02-16-06, 07:21 PM
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Sorry , I forgot the "MC" part, use the red heads, and remember, you don't want it to fall out. But also the connection is not integeral to the buidings strength. (AS some paople think). In short, snug it up, don't kill it.
 
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Old 02-16-06, 07:24 PM
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Originally Posted by ThomasB
\I ran my power to the GFCI and Spliced my nuetral on to the lights.....I then jumped the power to my switch from the load side of the GFCI and connected the hot to the lights...\
Are you saying you spliced the neutrals and took the hot from the "LOAD" terminal?
If so this is your problem.
As John says, either draw this out and post it or explain, in detail, how every wire is connected.
 
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Old 02-16-06, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by lectriclee
"GFI" = ground fault interupter. "GFCI"=Ground fault circuit interupter,(Big difference.).
In what way??

It is generally accepted that both terms are interchangable.
 
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Old 02-16-06, 07:28 PM
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The way I read the OP's post, he has the neutral to the lights SPLICED into the other neutral, and JUST the hot to the lights on the load side. In other words, the neutral to the lights comes from the line side, and the hot comes from the load side. Thus, the GFCI is doing its job and tripping on the perceived ground fault.

If my reading is correct, the solution is to either move the neutral to the lights to the load side of the GFCI, or to move the hot to the lights to the line side.
 
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Old 02-16-06, 07:50 PM
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Originally Posted by ThomasB
I hooked it up to a GFCI recp....and then powered my lights off the load side of the GFCI.....I ran my power to the GFCI and spliced the neutral on to the lights
What neutral did you splice onto the lights? You can't do that.

The neutral from the lights has to "jump" into the white side of the LOAD end of the GFCI.
 
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Old 02-16-06, 08:11 PM
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Hi Speedy,
There is a definate differance between the two.And WAY TOO many People assume the same.
THE right device , for the right application. NO in between.

1) GFI= Ground fault interupter, This protects YOU from the outlet.(typical outlet)

2)GFCI= Ground fault CIRCUIT interupter,wich actualy protects the conductors from the SOURCE TO the OUTLET .(typical breaker)

IE: GFI bathroom: hair dryer to sink, you'r protected. BUT if the tub leaks and hits the conductors in the wall, YOUR not.
I Hope this helps.
 
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Old 02-16-06, 08:23 PM
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Folks , I have the same set up. (only not 150') I ran my feed out to the GFI REC, hooked up my 3 inc lights and 2 quartz lights. ALL IS FINE.
If every thing holds untill the switch is hit.....Could be (nodisrespect intended)
sloppy install. Drop the fixtures and try again.
Sounds to me like your ground is hitting a neutral. It does't take much.
And I would leave the lights on the load side.
\ UNLESS they are flourescent.
 
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Old 02-16-06, 08:24 PM
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Where did you find these definitions?
They are not in Art.100. Only the proper term GFCI is:

Ground-Fault Circuit Interrupter (GFCI). A device intended for the protection of personnel that functions to de-energize a circuit or portion thereof within an established period of time when a current to ground exceeds the values established for a Class A device.

GFI is simply the abbreviated term.
 
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Old 02-16-06, 08:45 PM
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Ive only been a licensed electrician .....since officialy 4/20/1986.
Do you find my information incorrect? Or have you just not looked hard enough? WITH ALL DUE RESPECT! (this cyber stuff just doesn't do justice,for ones personality and sense of humor) coz I'm enjoying the dialog with
you. sometimes I sound crass, NOT my intention. Personality is hard in BLACK & WHITE.
 
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Old 02-16-06, 08:59 PM
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Originally Posted by lectriclee
Do you find my information incorrect?
Well, yes.

This is not my first year in the trade either and in my almost 20 years I have never seen two different definitions of GFCI.
"GFCI" is the only correct term I have ever seen.
If you can find it in official writing I will be more than happy to read it.

I am curious as to where to find the two different definitions. The code I quoted is direct from the NEC Handbook CD. That is the only place I need to look.


coz I'm enjoying the dialog with
you.
Me as well. I just hope we don't stray too far off topic and the thread gets closed.
 
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Old 02-17-06, 01:21 AM
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Originally Posted by lectriclee
Hi Speedy,
There is a definate differance between the two.And WAY TOO many People assume the same.
THE right device , for the right application. NO in between.

1) GFI= Ground fault interupter, This protects YOU from the outlet.(typical outlet)

2)GFCI= Ground fault CIRCUIT interupter,wich actualy protects the conductors from the SOURCE TO the OUTLET .(typical breaker)
in section 406.3 (D) (3)
Nongrounding-Type Receptacles. Where grounding means does not exist in the receptacle enclosure, the installation shall comply with (a), (b), or (c).
(a) A nongrounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with another nongrounding-type receptacle(s).

(b) A nongrounding-type receptacle(s) shall be permitted to be replaced with a
ground-fault circuit interrupter-type of receptacle(s). These receptacles shall be marked "No Equipment Ground." An equipment grounding conductor shall not be connected from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter-type receptacle to any outlet supplied from the ground-fault circuit-interrupter receptacle.


Now I'm confused, .
I believe the above came from the 2005 NEC code book. Maybe someone can confirm this.

Are they saying a "ground-fault circuit-interrupter" can be a type of receptacle (s) ?
or is this a misprint ?
Should they be saying "GFI"


BTW,
I think the problem with the GFI tripping is that the neutral from the "LINE" side has been tied together with the neutral on the "LOAD" side.
The power feeds into the GFI (hot and neutral) "LINE" side.
The "LOAD side feeds out, hot and neutral to the other items, to be protected.
 
  #16  
Old 02-17-06, 03:37 AM
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my set up coming into the shed the power goes directly to the line side of the GFCI or GFI.....my nuetral splices together and then is connected to the line side and onto the light....to power the lights I jumped off the load side to my switch....I do not have the neutral coming off the load side of the GFCI..........Should I run the nuetrql for the lights off the load side?....would the configuration that I have now would work with a regular Recp...... would I be better off to pigtail the hot coming into the shed and feed the switch without going thru the GFC, or use the load side for both the nuetral and hot....sorry for the confusion...Thanks
 
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Old 02-17-06, 04:09 AM
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This is your problem. You either need to use the load neutral along with the load hot, or better yet:
In the receptacle box, splice all the whites with a pigtail and do the same for the blacks. These will go to the GFI device. You do not need to GFI protect the lights.
 
  #18  
Old 02-17-06, 04:43 AM
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ThomasB,

A GFCI functions by comparing the current on the hot wire with the current on the neutral wire. As long as both currents are the same the current is allowed to flow. When the current difference goes above a very small threshold, the GFCI trips. This is because the current is going somewhere else, somewhere it doesn't belong, perhaps through a human body.

For this reason, any and all loads that go through a GFCI must go through both sides. If you only go through one side, the GFCI will sense an imbalance and trip.
 
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Old 02-17-06, 02:28 PM
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Thanks everyone for your help...I pigtailed both the hot and nuetral .....attached to the line side only of the GFCI and then to the light....works great....
 
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Old 02-17-06, 04:19 PM
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Hi SPEEDY and folks, I DID NOT QUOTE CODE OR ARTICLE, My mistake.
I was simply stating to the fact there is a diferance and we ALL should be aware of it.So as to avoid a false sence of security.
We MUST also remember the NEC is the BARE minimum.
Common sence and code go hand in hand. YES/NO?
 
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