Pool Wiring Questions

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  #1  
Old 02-26-06, 04:01 PM
Bob33
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Pool Wiring Questions

I'm thinking of an inground pool. Installer said they'd do all wiring of pool area (bonding etc). I need only to supply 50 amp 220 service to the filter box. My in-basement circuit panel (100 amp service; gas heat, hot water, and range) is full.
My questions:
1. How many wires (type and gauge) should be run from panel to outside (35' in house, 25' in garage, and about '20 feet outside to pool? Wire would be inside a structure until exiting the garage.
2. Since my main box is full, I assume I'll need a subpanel or a larger main box. I could move some of the main box circuits to the new subpanel (as they are for some garage outlets and patio outlets and don't get used much at all) to make room for the 50 amp 220 breaker. Any suggestions on the bigger box versus the subpanel? Also, a GFCI or normal breaker required?
3. Once wiring exits garage, it would be buried. How deep typically, and what kind and number of wires needed?
I hope I've provided enough info to respond; if not, I'll backfill.

Thanks in advance.
Bob
 
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Old 02-26-06, 05:02 PM
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I need only to supply 50 amp 240 circuit to the filter box. My in-basement circuit panel (100 amp service; gas heat, hot water, and range) is full.
You might need a heavy up. You sure could use one.
Any chance you'll be adding A/C in the future?

> 1. How many wires
Four.

> (type and gauge)
You have some flexibility here.
Do you want copper or aluminum? Do you want bare minimums?

> should be run from panel to outside
> (35' in house, 25' in garage, and about '20 feet outside to pool?
80' is a long way.
Minimum is #8 copper. You should use #6 copper.
THHN/THWN-2 type is one of several options.

> Wire would be inside a structure until exiting the garage.
Do you want to run an NM-B cable inside and conduit or underground feeder or direct-bury outside?
Do you want to run conduit part of the way or the whole way?



> 2. Since my main box is full, I assume I'll need a subpanel or a larger main box.
This is the best way to go. Sub is easier. But that doesn't upgrade your total ampacity.


> I could move some of the main box circuits to the new subpanel
> (as they are for some garage outlets and patio outlets and don't
> get used much at all) to make room for the 50 amp 240 breaker.
Yes.


> Any suggestions on the bigger box versus the subpanel?
I would run #4 copper to the garage and put a sub there.
Then I would run the pool branch from there.
You could use only #8 copper from there given that the run is only half as long.


> Also, a GFCI or normal breaker required?
Either.



> 3. Once wiring exits garage, it would be buried.
> How deep typically, and what kind and number of wires needed?
See above.

Depth depends on cable/conduit type.
6" in RMC, 18" in NMC, and 24" if direct-burial.
 
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Old 02-26-06, 05:28 PM
Bob33
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Bolide: Thanks for the replies!
My answers and a question or two:

"You might need a heavy up. You sure could use one.
Any chance you'll be adding A/C in the future?"
Yes, we've already have central a/c on a 40 amp breaker.
Since pool guy said he wanted 50 amp (don't know if it would ever draw that though; pump brochure says 10 amp fuse for 230 v service), I don't think I need to upgrade the panel.

"> Wire would be inside a structure until exiting the garage.
Do you want to run an NM-B cable inside and conduit or underground feeder or direct-bury outside?
Do you want to run conduit part of the way or the whole way?"
My would prefer NM-B cable inside since I wouldn't have to run conduit in basement ceiling (suspended ceiling in basement: I don't believe I can staple NM-B to underside of floor joists; have to drill through correct? If I go flexible conduit (blue stuff) can I strap to underside of floor joists? If so, it might be easier to go conduit the whole way since when I enter garage, I'll have to go up garage/house common wall to garage ceiling [can't leave NM exposed without protection in a garage correct?], across ceiling, and then back down garage wall to exit for burial.)

"Any suggestions on the bigger box versus the subpanel?
I would run #4 copper to the garage and put a sub there.
Then I would run the pool branch from there.
You could use only #8 copper from there given that the run is only half as long."
If I run the #4 and sub in garage, I assume the #4 must be attached to the main box via the 50 amp breaker but the subpanel would have circuit breakers for my other garage and patio circuits?

Thanks,
Bob
 
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Old 02-26-06, 05:39 PM
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I would run a sub to the garage also, but to circumvent the requirement for ALL conduit to a pool panel in a new installation.
If you run from the main panel to the pool panel it must be in conduit the whole way. See 680.25.

The GFI breaker requirement would be up to the pool guy. Is he installing GFI breakers for each piece of equipment, or not? I personally would want each piece on it's own GFCB (if required).
 
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Old 02-26-06, 07:28 PM
Bob33
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
I would run a sub to the garage also, but to circumvent the requirement for ALL conduit to a pool panel in a new installation.
If you run from the main panel to the pool panel it must be in conduit the whole way. See 680.25.

So, I can run the NM-B through basement to a transition after subpanel to conduit and THNN?

The GFI breaker requirement would be up to the pool guy. Is he installing GFI breakers for each piece of equipment, or not? I personally would want each piece on it's own GFCB (if required).
I don't know the answer to that and will have to check. Why each on it's own and not one GFI breaker?
 
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Old 02-26-06, 07:56 PM
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Troubleshooting and isolation for one thing. If you have a problem with one piece of equipment tripping a breaker you can just shut off that one piece.
 
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Old 02-26-06, 08:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Bob33
We already have central a/c on a 40 amp breaker.
Since pool guy said he wanted 50 amp (don't know if it would ever draw that though; pump brochure says 10 amp fuse for 230V service), I don't think I need to upgrade the panel.
50A is standard; assumes heat, I suppose. I'd like to see your load calculation.
You might not absolutely need an upgrade, but you are getting close.


> I would prefer NM-B cable inside since I wouldn't have to run conduit in basement ceiling
> (suspended ceiling in basement: I don't believe I can staple NM-B to underside of floor joists;
> I have to drill through correct?

Drilling is almost always better. But why would you use smurf tube instead of RNC?


> If I go flexible conduit (blue stuff) can I strap to underside of floor joists?
I wouldn't.

> If so, it might be easier to go conduit the whole way since when I enter garage,
> I'll have to go up garage/house common wall to garage ceiling [can't leave NM
> exposed without protection in a garage correct?],
I wouldn't.


> If I run the #4 and sub in garage, I assume the #4 must be attached to the
> main box via the 50 amp breaker
I had in mind 100A or whatever size you put in the garage.
It's a matter of figuring out what you want to do now and want you want to re-do later.

I think a 100A panel in the garage is a plus for many buyers.


> but the subpanel would have circuit breakers for my other garage and patio circuits?
Correct. And the new owner's welder, air compressor, table saw, and halogen work lights.
 
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