Confused about proper amp/wire for electric stove

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  #1  
Old 03-02-06, 01:15 PM
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Confused about proper amp/wire for electric stove

Originally when we checked into the amperage needed and wiring needed we were looking at a slide in electric stove. thats when we were told 50 amp/6-3 wire. However now we are just gonna go for a flat top (who wants to go through the hassle of trying to clean a burner) a regular electric flat top. I am not sure if that would change the plan or not. The guy did however say that we probably could get away with a 40amp/8-3 wire. but that the stove wouldnt give us the same power as using the 50amp/6-3 ... with your comment I wonder what would be proper. Do you by chance or anyone by chance know how I determine (depending on the stove I get) what would be the proper amp/wire ??? any help on this would be appreciated as this is the month I finally am gonna get my electric stove and go for TOTAL ELECTRIC ... Gas prices here are costing us triple the price to have it as it is for our usage. No joke. Maybe it is that way everywhere. Im sure.
 
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Old 03-02-06, 01:53 PM
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The stove documentation is the guide to follow. I looked up documentation for a couple of cooktops that called for 40A and 8 AWG wiring. This can and likely will vary between manufacturers and models. I'd decide on a particular model, and then follow exactly what their documentation calls for.
 
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Old 03-02-06, 01:59 PM
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As long as the range is not rated at or above 12kw all you need is 8/3 on a 40 amp breaker. Look behind the drawer front to get the kw rating label.


The guy did however say that we probably could get away with a 40amp/8-3 wire. but that the stove wouldnt give us the same power as using the 50amp/6-3
This is completely false. "The guy" was wrong!
 
  #4  
Old 03-02-06, 04:52 PM
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Originally Posted by praisinbear
The guy did however say that we probably could get away with a 40amp/8-3 wire. but that the stove wouldnt give us the same power as using the 50amp/6-3 ... with your comment I wonder what would be proper.

Technically he is right, wire size.
8 gauge wire has more resistance then the larger 6 gauge wire.
The amount of power loss is dependent on how long the run is, full load current, and wire size.
If the run is less then 50 feet the power loss may not be that great, maybe 20 to 100 watt loss.
As everyone stated.You need to check with the manual.
 
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Old 03-02-06, 05:17 PM
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Technically not really. #8 on 40 amps, #6 on 50 amps. "Standard" circuit sizing.
We are not talking about voltage drop though.
The guys who says this range will not "give the same power" is wrong in most every residential setting.
 
  #6  
Old 03-03-06, 08:15 AM
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thanks everyone

I went to HD's web site and looked at the stove we know we want. Luckily it had downloadable pdf manuals,instructions, and care sheets. I wouldn't have known to look at the manual for that info as before when I bought things it simply said must be installed by a licensed professional. (Since I know how to do stuff I usually install myself and ask a question or two if I'm not sure of something). It calls for a 40amp so Iwill go with the 8-3 wire. although it says I can use a 3 or 4 wire plug? It also indicated that for new residents it is code to have the 4 wire and older homes MAY use a 3 wire plug. And the difference between the two would be what???? should I consider the 4 wire plug better than the 3 wire plug? Also the run is only 25 feet at most for where the stove will be located to the service panel box.
Once again. thanks for the responses. I really appreciate this forum and you guys/gals
 
  #7  
Old 03-03-06, 10:16 AM
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Your running a new line 8-3 that = 3 wires + ground 4 wires. that's the code when you run a new line.
You will need a 4 wire plug and receptacle.
8-3 has two hot wires to get 240 volts a neutral to get 120 volts from one of the hot wires and a ground.
The old 3 wire, the neutral was shared with ground.
 
  #8  
Old 03-03-06, 02:30 PM
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i agree with petey, 220.55 1 appliance not over 12kw
 
  #9  
Old 03-03-06, 05:38 PM
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Ok so here is the hook up im used to. I hope I relay this properly. When I hook the wire to the circuit breaker it will be dp. so two wires will go into that. I'm assuming a red and a black. Leaving I assume a white and a ground. do the white and the ground go together in the hot bus bar as the sp 20 amps are wired? I know the white as the neutral and the black as the hot. Thats how my dryer wire is. So even though that is a 10-3 some would consider it a 4 wire? Just making sure that it isnt anything different than I know it to be. Did they used to wired with something like an 8-2. I only know what my dad taught me. That was about 18 years ago. Then more when I bought this house 10 years ago. He showed me how to re-wire my dryer. I know there was a white, black,red and ground. But in the service box the white is with the ground in the bus bar. With my electric water heater it was 10-2. So I have the black and the white in the circuit breaker and only the ground is in the bus bar. Am I right In my thinking of how to hook it up to the circuit breaker?
 
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Old 03-03-06, 05:51 PM
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I'm not sure what you mean by "hot buss bar". I asume you mean the neutral/ground bar in the main panel.

Yes, the black and red are the hots. They go on the two-pole breaker.
The white is the neutral and the bare is the ground. In the receptacle they go to their respective terminals. In the MAIN panel they do go to the same bar. Please don't let this confuse you. This is the ONLY time grounds and neutrals share a connection any more.
 
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Old 03-04-06, 06:34 AM
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"Leaving I assume a white and a ground. do the white and the ground go together in the hot bus bar as the sp 20 amps are wired? I know the white as the neutral and the black as the hot."

dont mention a white as the neutral and the ground in the same sentence as hot buss bar. if you mean the ground, neutral bar in the main panel thats where it goes. when a white is on a 2 pole breaker with a black it is not a neutral. the only time a neutral will go to a breaker is with a gfci breaker and a gfep breaker. even in these cases the neutral does not contact the hot buss bar
 
  #12  
Old 03-04-06, 11:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
We are not talking about voltage drop though.
The guys who says this range will not "give the same power" is wrong in most every residential setting.

He's talking about power.

Please explain why is he wrong.
I explained how he can be right in my post # 4.
How do you measure input power and output power ?
 
  #13  
Old 03-05-06, 06:08 AM
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You tell me how he is right.
Yes, larger wire has less resistance, we all know this. But in a setting like this, with the average circuit length, there will be NO noticable or detrimental difference.

If what you say is so why are we allowed to use #8 wire for a 12kw range?
 
  #14  
Old 03-05-06, 06:12 AM
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A water heater is a "pure" 240 volt load. Two hots and a ground. NO NEUTRAL. It is allowed to use the black and white from a cable which has 2 wires plus bare ground. In this case, the white conductor is hot and should be marked at each end with tape showing that it is NOT neutral.


A stove is usually a 120/240 load, meaning it needs 2 hots, a bare ground, AND a whit neutral.

In your main panel, the neutral bus and the grounded bus are bonded together.

Even though the stove says it can be 3 or 4 wire, all codes will today require a new or modified circuit to be 4 wire.
 
  #15  
Old 03-05-06, 08:50 AM
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8-3 is Fine!

Originally Posted by praisinbear
Originally when we checked into the amperage needed and wiring needed we were looking at a slide in electric stove. thats when we were told 50 amp/6-3 wire. However now we are just gonna go for a flat top (who wants to go through the hassle of trying to clean a burner) a regular electric flat top. I am not sure if that would change the plan or not. The guy did however say that we probably could get away with a 40amp/8-3 wire. but that the stove wouldnt give us the same power as using the 50amp/6-3 ... with your comment I wonder what would be proper. Do you by chance or anyone by chance know how I determine (depending on the stove I get) what would be the proper amp/wire ??? any help on this would be appreciated as this is the month I finally am gonna get my electric stove and go for TOTAL ELECTRIC ... Gas prices here are costing us triple the price to have it as it is for our usage. No joke. Maybe it is that way everywhere. Im sure.
The Nationael electric code callas for a minimun of a 40 Amp 8-3 nm ! I have wired hundreds of new homes and have never had any problem using 8-3. But If the nameplate on your new oven calls for 6-3 then it may have a higer amperage draw than normal. The stove is only going to draw a certain amount of amps no matter what. The bottom line is unless the new oven that your buying calls for a 50 amp load then you do not need a 6-3 wire! Check the electrical specs on the unit you are buying I bet you can use 8-3. Just look for " Minimun Size Circuit Breaker Or Fuse" Size on the nameplate that is what you go buy! Hope this helps!
 
  #16  
Old 03-05-06, 12:52 PM
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I want to see actual numbers

Originally Posted by praisinbear
I'm finally am gonna get my electric stove and go for TOTAL ELECTRIC ... Gas prices here are costing us triple the price to have it as it is for our usage. No joke. Maybe it is that way everywhere. I'm sure.
I'm not sure.

Please post your numbers showing how electricity costs less than gas (without any subsidy).
A new thread is fine, or send me a private message. Thanks.


Regardless, any temporary price imbalance will return to historical levels barring that a cheap source of electricity is found.
Afterall, many electric plants use gas.
 
  #17  
Old 03-07-06, 07:14 AM
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boldie. I have an Uncle who works at our power plant here. they use coal to power it not any form of gas. He told me the whole process. which I was surprised about only because I guess I never thought of electric needing a source. You know plug it in and go. however I take my numbers according to my bills. When we first moved in back in 96 our winter gas bill (at the time other than reg electric our house was total gas) was 150 dollars a month. in the summer time or non use of the furnace time. it was 11.00 a month. a year and a half ago before we started converting our winter gas bill was almost 600.00 a month without using any more than we have been. and it had been rising through the years. our summer gas bill was 25 a month. now that we have converted everything but the stove. our gas bill a month is 40 dollars and we use less. we barely use the stove and most of the charge is commodity the rest being distribution. 3.00 is our usuage. that is crazy. my electric bill a month since we converted is 350 and before we converted (with three teenage kids leaving lights on and running everything at one time and two window ac's) our electric bill would run between 80-100 dollars a month. It's even cheaper now that the two teenage daughters moved out. So thats what I am basing my info on.
 
  #18  
Old 02-17-10, 03:11 PM
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proper sizing

Hello, my name is steven. When you were told that if you under sized the wire and breaker you would not have enough power to the stove. This is completely wrong. Always remember that the reason for a breaker is not to protect your device but merely for protecting the wire. The breaker is sized according to the guage of the wire needed to carry the full load amperage of your device. If your device is rated to pull 40 amps at full load it will do so no matter what size wire used. If you were to use 14 guage wire it would still supply you stove with the same amount of power as would 6 guage, but the wire would burn and most likely cause a fire. Your stove is merely a resistance device. You need to determine what the full load amperage or wattage is rated on your device, then sized your wire according to that full load rating. The ampacity rating for differant guage wire can be found on the internet or a uglys referance book. Keep in mind that voltage drop in residential wiring is rarely considered. If your device is rated 40 amps at 220volts at full load and you were to have a 10 % voltage drop across your wire then your current draw would increase by 10%. You would have the same amount of power at the stove but would now be pulling 44 amps at full load.
 
  #19  
Old 02-17-10, 04:40 PM
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Welcome to the forum. This is a four year old post. Im sure the OP has cooked many meals by now. Perhaps you can help with some of the more recent posts.
 
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Old 02-17-10, 04:44 PM
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Holy old thread, Batman!!!
 
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