Shed Service Wire.

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  #1  
Old 03-05-06, 04:13 PM
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Shed Service Wire.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Plan is to install a 60 amp circuit breaker in my house panel (plenty of room and load calculations have been done) and run wire to my outside shed (soon to be under construction). I'm looking at running (3) #6 and (1) #10 Ground. It will run through my attic then into PVC (grey) which will be buired 18" underground. We plan on running Romex all the way. Total run is approximately 70 feet. Will install a 60Amp subpanel in the shed with two 20amp circuit breakers.

Does the above make sense? Any recommendations?

Don
 
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Old 03-05-06, 04:23 PM
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Originally Posted by dwcurry
It will run through my attic then into PVC (grey) which will be buired 18" underground. We plan on running Romex all the way. Total run is approximately 70 feet.
Are you saying you plan to run the NM (romex) all the ay, including the conduit?
Is so this is a BAD idea. First, it is illegal to run NM underground, even in conduit. Second, it is simply a bad idea to run NM in a conduit run at all.
You should run THWN conductors in conduit.
 
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Old 03-05-06, 05:05 PM
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You cannot use NM outdoors period. It will get wet and get ruined. The only cable you can use is UF (Underground Feeder). However, the appropriate wire to use is THWN, four lengths.
 
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Old 03-06-06, 07:43 AM
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OK, how is this? Romax from panel through attic and down conduit to junction box on outside wall. Then THWN from junction box through 1 1/2 PVC under ground to shed panel.

Doe the wire size look appropirate ((3) #6 and (1) #10 Ground)?

Thank you for the help. The final plans will be approve by the City, just finalizing everything for the permitting process.

Don
 
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Old 03-06-06, 11:45 AM
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Originally Posted by dwcurry
OK, how is this? Romax from panel through attic and down conduit to junction box on outside wall. Then THWN from junction box through 1 1/2 PVC under ground to shed panel.
That is one valid solution. The other would would be to run conduit all the way and use THWN conductors. You could also abandon the conduit all but protection pieces to enter and exit the ground and use UF-B cable buried 24".

Doe the wire size look appropirate ((3) #6 and (1) #10 Ground)?
That is the correct wire for a 60A panel.
 
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Old 03-07-06, 02:09 AM
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From all that I've read in here, and if I'm not mistaken, I think you're going to need to drive a new ground rod out near your shed. I didn't see it mentioned anywhere above, so hopefully, one of the experts in here will confirm this.
 
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Old 03-07-06, 06:25 AM
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My personal preference is to pipe all the way and my wire of choice for these is number 2 aluminum, they sell a quad at the home stores, I think the last I bought was 2 2 2 6. It might not be practical to dig around? I usually use 60A on this wire anyway but runs like this are long and the 2 gives great performance not to mention being a lot cheaper. If there was ever a need the breaker could be changed up, tools like a welding machine or an air comp will run at distance of 200 ft well on this wire if needed. At a hundred feet the air could come on while you were welding and it would still function fine. Number 6 is a legal install but it could be better.
 
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Old 03-07-06, 06:35 AM
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Yes, a grounding rod is also required. This is just one of the many necessary details not mentioned in this thread. I would hate for anybody to think that this thread provides complete instructions for a subpanel in a shed.
 
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Old 03-07-06, 02:22 PM
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I thank you all for getting back to me. With the number of post that are made daily to the Elecrical forum, I am amazed at how you all are able to keep up with them in such a timely manner.

All us DIY'ers greatly appreciate it.

Don
 
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Old 05-25-06, 04:07 PM
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If THWN is used for the run through the attic, does it have to go through conduit?

DWC
 
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Old 05-25-06, 04:46 PM
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Originally Posted by dwcurry
If THWN is used for the run through the attic, does it have to go through conduit?

DWC
yes it does.
 
  #12  
Old 05-25-06, 09:28 PM
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Shed Service Wire

I will explain how I would do this; while it is in many ways similar to what we've been discussing so far, and is not the only way, I think you will understand my approach.

First of all, wiring the shed is almost certain to require a permit. Your town just might have some local requirements you'll need to comply with. Be sure to discuss your plans with them- that's what you pay them for!

Coming off an existing panel- is there room? Are new breakers available? Assuming the answer is "yes" and "yes", then the question becomes "how will you get new wires out of the panel?"
Many places would require a feeder (wires feeding another panel) to be in metal pipe within the house- no Romex or SE. They also might require the ground to be "full size," or a minimum of #8.

But, for the sake of discussion, let's say your wire sizes are OK, and that Romex is OK. Romex is not allowed in wet locations- and buried pipe is always considered a "wet" location.

Perhaps you could run UF all the way. Of course, your wire would have to be buried deeper- but I advise burying pipe 24" deep anyway. Deeper is better.
I strongly advise running pipe- and that the pipe be at least one size larger than you need. Why? Because you can replace the wires, never needing to dig again. Also, a larger pipe is easier to pull wires into.

So, at some point you will have to transition from Romex to individual wires (such as THWN. (remember- the pipe is a 'wet' location) This is done at a junction box at either end. In this case, because of the size of the wires, I suggest one at least 6" square by 4" deep. The one in the shed ought to be outdoor (NEMA 3R) rated, as the shed will be considered as a 'damp' location.
For that matter, so should the panel, for the same reason.

Now, you might have to use something other than Romex within the shed, if the wires are exposed. Again, local rules apply.

As mentioned already, the shed will need it's own grounding 'electrode.' If you are pouring a slab, the rebar can become part of this 'electrode'; learn about the "Ufer" ground. Otherwise, there is the traditional ground rod.

Your local rules might also require an outdoor disconnect for the shed. Ask!

Finally, no matter how things are done at your main panel, in the shed the neutral and ground wires will have separate buss bars. The ground rod wire will be connected to the ground buss ONLY.

Finally, I would suggest that the 60 amp breaker be of the "GFI" type. That way, the entire wire run and panel are protected. Can't be frying mice when they nibble on the wires, now!
 
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