Sub-Panel questions

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  #1  
Old 03-12-06, 02:03 PM
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Sub-Panel questions

ok i read alot of post talkin about sub-panels, and I think i got it figured out. the reason im actually here is b/c i wanted to have ppl look at the plan and tell me if they see any problems.

Some Extra Info that might help:
I live in SW Florida.
The home is 15 years old.
Meter box has one big main breaker, then we have a panel in the garage that houses the other circuits.
The welder im hookin up is a 220v Hobart, needs a Hot-Hot-Ground conection (thats how it was hooked up at previous home)
The New Panel will be 3 inches from the Meter Box/Main Breaker.
any other questions, just ask

http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL826/4336175/9408243/132976033.jpg

my main concern is the Ground/Null wire, the meter box on the side of the house has a White wire that runs from the Ground Bus to somewhere under the left breaker, from what the ppl at Home-Depot tell me the Ground and the White Null wire are the same so it shouldnt be an issue. from my reading i understand a range needs Hot-Hot-Neut, but a welder needs Hot-Hot-Ground.. also does the new panel Neut Bus need the Bus Bonding Screw installed or should i leave it out... hence a little confusion.. any help will be great...

Thanx In Advance
 

Last edited by Buick455; 03-12-06 at 03:46 PM.
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  #2  
Old 03-12-06, 02:20 PM
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Your ground and neutral need to be separated at the sub panel. They should only be connected together at the main panel.

Your statement about an electric range needing two hots and a neutral is wrong. Electric ranges and electric dryers need two hots, a neutral and a ground. In years past they could be wired with the ground and neutral being the same wire, but that is not allowed for any new installations.

Your welder needs 2 hots and a ground because it is pure 240 volt appliance. A neutral is only needed for 240 volt appliances that have a 120 volt component, such as the motor on an electric dryer or the light and clock on an electric range.

I don't like your generator input drawn on your diagrams. Please tell me that you have a proper generator connection. Please tell me that you are NOT back feeding into your electrical system with nothing to prevent power from flowing back into the utility wires.
 
  #3  
Old 03-12-06, 02:53 PM
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Ok so now we are even more confused.. the ppl at lowes are useless, lol

I don't like your generator input drawn on your diagrams. Please tell me that you have a proper generator connection. Please tell me that you are NOT back feeding into your electrical system with nothing to prevent power from flowing back into the utility wires.
ill start off by letting you know the generator link is set up with a white woble switch that kills the utility line before the generator will run, basicly it just kills the main power from the pole before you can power the house off the generator. it was installed before we bought the place i personaly dont like it but it worked great last hurricane season.

Your ground and neutral need to be separated at the sub panel. They should only be connected together at the main panel.
if the Neut line needs to be seperate from the ground like you say where should i look for the connection? all i have is a Ground Bus in the main with a Neut/White connected to it... and this then means i need to purchase a ground bus for inside the sub panel right? the sub-panel i have only has the 2 Hot lugs, and a Neut lug w/bus & Bonding Screw.

Your statement about an electric range needing two hots and a neutral is wrong. Electric ranges and electric dryers need two hots, a neutral and a ground. In years past they could be wired with the ground and neutral being the same wire, but that is not allowed for any new installations.
ok this i understand, but my house wasn't wired that way 15 years ago. and thats what i got the info from, luckly im not installin a range, no biggie

Thanx for the quickness btw
 
  #4  
Old 03-12-06, 03:19 PM
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Crap, lol

Ok i need to revise the wiring in the drawing, when we were putting it on paper we missed something, lol... ill update when its corrected, sry
 
  #5  
Old 03-12-06, 03:34 PM
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I'm glad that your generator input kills the main breaker. Make sure that this is still the case after your changes. It is very dangerous (and stupid) to have a setup where you can back feed the utility wires with your generator.

Your neutral and ground need to be separated at the sub panels. At the main panel they should be together.

At your new sub panel, remove and throw away the green screw. The buss bar it was attached to is your neutral buss. Then screw exists to bond it to the case, making it a ground and neutral buss. Buy and install a ground bar for the sub panel.

You need four wires from your main panel to your sub panel. You need two hots, a neutral and a ground. At the main panel the two hots get connected to the breaker. The ground and the neutral get connected to the ground/neutral buss. At the sub panel, the two hots get connected to the input power connections. The neutral gets connected to the neutral buss and the ground gets connected to the ground buss.

Fifteen years ago ranges were wired differently. You can install a new range and use the old wiring, but if you must replace the wiring for any reason (remodel, extend the circuit, etc.), then your new wiring for the range must be four wire.
 
  #6  
Old 03-12-06, 03:44 PM
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Ok the drawing is updated, all that was lost was a large wire that feeds into the garage, its alum.. and is painted grey. that and my "to garage" and my "from pole" were flopped.. RC i will make a new drawing of what u described just to tripple check my work, lol. thanx again
 
  #7  
Old 03-12-06, 04:39 PM
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OK.. Here we go...

ok i have revised the plan to your spec's, hopefuly i got it right this time, lol... 3rd times a charm right

http://pic17.picturetrail.com/VOL826.../133015562.jpg

some1 let me know if we got this right, this time, lol... i need to weld something.. my welders been sitting on its cart for 2.5 years collecting dust.. im suffering from withdrawl, lol

Thanx Again
 

Last edited by Buick455; 03-12-06 at 10:58 PM.
  #8  
Old 03-13-06, 07:25 AM
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Somebody pls check this...

ok i re-did the schem/plan/drawing to reflect what racraft said, i just need somebody to give it a once over so i know its right ...

New Drawing
 
  #9  
Old 03-13-06, 02:30 PM
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I am confused by some of the colors you used for drawing wires, but the connections appear to be correct.
 
  #10  
Old 03-13-06, 02:40 PM
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I am confused by some of the colors you used for drawing wires, but the connections appear to be correct.
the important ones:
Gold/Brown-ish = Bare Ground
Red = Hot
Black = Hot
White = Neut

as far as the grey and green, one is painted (was a black, but wasnt painted by accedent) and the green is actually rapped in a green tape-like stuff.. more like a rubber cloth tape (super duct tape) hope that helps ya

Thanx again
 
  #11  
Old 03-13-06, 03:42 PM
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It appears that you have the grounding correct, but I think that you should give a better description of how the generator is connected. You described some sort of 'wobble switch'. Is this a link that prevents the main breaker and the generator breaker from being on at the same time? You cannot disrupt the interlock between the generator breaker and the main breaker, unless you have a transfer switch somewhere else.

-Jon
 
  #12  
Old 03-13-06, 04:28 PM
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the gene- isnt an issue anymore, but thanx winnie.. i am removing it all together, since first i dont like the way the previous owners set it up, second the gene- is only powerfull enough to run the fridge, and well equp- were goig to purchess a larger unit (prolly a Gardian plus or something like it) so we can keep everything powered including the HVAC...

thanx tho, lol
 
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