High-Hat Thermal Switch Problem

Reply

  #1  
Old 03-16-06, 11:29 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Media, PA
Posts: 175
High-Hat Thermal Switch Problem

THIS IS TOTALLY CRAZY..and DRIVING ME CRAZY...EVEN THE NEIGHBORS REMARK !!
and I cannot work in my office at night....one High-Hat fixture simply goes off and on...off and on...and you won't believe this: I replaced the ENTIRE FIXTURE....with a new Halo 6" "can"....and it STILL OCCURS. It's like this house is HAUNTED.

There are 8 other older high-hats working perfectly.
HOW CAN THIS BE ?
I'M READY TO TEAR DOWN THE ENTIRE CEILING....MAYBE THE ENTIRE HOUSE.
This has been going on for 2 years now.

WHY IS ONE, UNO, Fixture not able to work ?
There is nothing special about it's location....drywall ceiling....no insulation around it...
plenty of open space.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 03-16-06, 12:10 PM
bolide's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,909
> There is nothing special about its location....

Not exactly. Is it the last one on its line?

What size bulb is in it?


Trace the cable back to the previous junction box or can.
That's most likely where the ghost lives.

Tearing down the house is only the third best choice.
 

Last edited by bolide; 03-16-06 at 12:32 PM.
  #3  
Old 03-16-06, 05:26 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Media, PA
Posts: 175
Yep...last one in the line.
Using brand new 65w flood....
must I rewire this....
or reduce the wattage ....
or what ?
Why is the last in line so susceptible ?
 
  #4  
Old 03-16-06, 05:54 PM
bolide's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,909
> last one in the line.

Excellent.


> must I rewire this....
Not likely, just tighten the loose connection.


> or reduce the wattage ....

Is this by chance a 60W can with a 65W bulb in it?


> Why is the last in line so susceptible?

It's not.

What you need to do is relax, answer the questions to the best of you ability, and follow directions.

If you managed to replace the can, you can easily open the another and inspect the wiring in it.

Either the black or the white wire has a bad connection.

You could figure exactly which one. But it is safer just to check them both.


First you have to figure out which can is next to last.
Do you know which one or do you need assistance?
 
  #5  
Old 03-16-06, 06:38 PM
chandler's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 39,968
Bolide: another problem I have seen is the installation of non IC cans and allowing insulation to fall down around it, causing the heat build up and thermo click out. Just a thought.
 
  #6  
Old 03-16-06, 08:34 PM
bolide's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,909
> another problem I have seen is the installation of non IC cans and allowing insulation to fall down
> around it, causing the heat build up and thermo click out.

He specified no insulation. Might be first floor.
What happens with a 65W miniflood in a 60A can?
 
  #7  
Old 03-16-06, 08:47 PM
Andrew's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 930
It's not out of the question that both fixtures are defective from the factory ...they could both be from the same batch.
 
  #8  
Old 03-16-06, 10:32 PM
bolide's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,909
Originally Posted by Andrew
It's not out of the question that both fixtures are defective from the factory ...they could both be from the same batch.
Who said that they are even from the same factory?

Getting cans from the same batch more than two years apart is not too likely, at least not at a warehouse store.

The poor good does seem to have a lot of negative energy surrounding him. So that would be exactly his luck to get the one in a thousand that is defective from the factory.


The symptoms don't sound much like a defect.
Either he has been using a 65W flood all along in just this one 60W can or there is a problem with the wiring.
There aren't many other possibilities. The latter makes the most sense to me if we are not missing other relevant details - like it's the only 60W can.
 
  #9  
Old 03-17-06, 05:22 AM
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,188
My guess is that there is a poor connection at the can just upstream. Some Halo cans use wire nuts and others use a compression fitting similar to a backstab (the trade name escapes me). I suggest opening the JBox at the can feeding the problem one and redoing the connections.
 
  #10  
Old 03-17-06, 05:59 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Media, PA
Posts: 175
> must I rewire this....
Not likely, just tighten the loose connection.
Uh....WHICH CONNECTION ?
I just have 2 wire nuts to make the connection from the conduit that I cut which feeds the can.

> or reduce the wattage ....

Is this by chance a 60W can with a 65W bulb in it?
No, the can is fully rated for 65w....I saw this inside of it.
What's really wierd is that this new can has a frequency of going off and on at about the same rate as the old one.

What you need to do is relax, answer the questions to the best of you ability, and follow directions.
If you managed to replace the can, you can easily open the another and inspect the wiring in it.
Either the black or the white wire has a bad connection.
You could figure exactly which one. But it is safer just to check them both.
Again, which connection ?
Also, if it were a connection problem, wouldn't the light just stay off completely ?

First you have to figure out which can is next to last.
Do you know which one or do you need assistance?
Yep...I have not a clue...what's the trick ? I can't get my head thru the hole,
only my arm.
 
  #11  
Old 03-17-06, 06:28 PM
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: USA
Posts: 3,188
Hi Mark - With the power off remove the bulb and trim piece. There will be a baffle plate inside with the bulb socket. You can unscrew the baffle plate and lower it down (the wires are attached so be careful). Once it is out of the way, you can reach up and remove the J Box cover (its held in place by a spring latch - no screws to remove) to access the connections. The Halo can is designed to allow access from inside the can. It's a little tight, but you should be able to remake the connections or at least see if one of them has loosened.
I've had the exact problem you describe and the cause was a loose connection in a wire nut. I just tugged on the wires and wire nuts and one of the stranded wires fell out.
 
  #12  
Old 03-17-06, 10:00 PM
bolide's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,909
Originally Posted by marksimms
Uh....WHICH CONNECTION ?
In the next-to-last can.


> What's really wierd is that this new can has a frequency of going off
> and on at about the same rate as the old one.

There is nothing weird about this.
It's the same problem because you haven't done anything about the problem.
There was nothing wrong with the can you replaced.

> Again, which connection ?

In the next-to-last can.


> if it were a connection problem, wouldn't the light just stay off completely?

No.


> what's the trick ? I can't get my head thru the hole, only my arm.

I assume you've seen Wayne's answer by now.
 
  #13  
Old 03-22-06, 06:32 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Media, PA
Posts: 175
Thanks...but...

I just stuck my hand up there, opened the "door" of the j-connector where the leads were tied-together, and re-tightened them. I then moved around the lead lines coming from the "other" can. After testing this with the can hanging OUT of the ceiling, it appeared to no longer be shutting off and on.
However, when I inserted the can back into the housing in the ceiling, ONCE MORE, the blinking started back up.
This really seems like a thermal switch problem, but how can it be after I replaced the entire can ?
One thing I must mention is that I never replaced the existing housing....I just got a new 6" "can" and it fit inside of the old housing with no problem.
 
  #14  
Old 03-22-06, 07:17 AM
bolide's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,909
Try a lower wattage bulb; or even better, try a compact fluorescent.
 
  #15  
Old 03-23-06, 09:58 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Media, PA
Posts: 175
Nope...you were right.

I "overrode" the thermal cut-off switch....and natch, the same blinking occurs.
Thus, the problem is NOT thermal.

The problem is "upstream".....but it's tough to say exactly WHERE.
The room has 4 hi-hats.....I just gotta guess which is the "second-to-last" in line....
and pull that one out. Probably safe to bet it is one of the two closest....
although with "this old house", I've been fooled before.
 
  #16  
Old 03-28-06, 01:09 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Media, PA
Posts: 175
FIXED ! The nightmare is over...

Finally "went to work"....pulled the entire J-Bar down....took apart all connections....and then "discovered" the old J-Bar "unit" must have had it's << OWN >> thermal overload protector (which was faulty, natch !). I by-passed that bad boy...put the unit back in place.
All is well now.
Bottomline: experience counts in these hairy problems....I had no idea there would be an overload in the j-unit....but a pro would have known this immediately.
Thanks to all who responded.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'