Electric Fence

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  #1  
Old 03-21-06, 10:05 AM
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Electric Fence

I have an MSEE and have been working as an electrical engineer for 3 years, before that, I was in Telecom and Electronic engineering. I put in this electric fence and discovered a basic principal that I should have known by now.

For an AC circuit, the electricity goes up and down the hot wire and also the hot wire does not need to have a complete circuit. The hot wire can actually be dangling in free air and it is still hot. In other words you will receive a shock by touching it even if you are not grounded. Electricity flows up and down the hot wire at all times whether the hot wire is connected to anything or not to include the negative terminal or ground. I learned this when I put my tester 1 foot from the hot wire and did not receive a glow light when I added more fence to the circuit. I should of had a short to ground and lit the light, but the extra fence wire loaded down the transformer so no current, or to little current would flow to light my tester.
 
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  #2  
Old 03-21-06, 10:26 AM
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No. Your statement is incorrect. You need a complete path for current to flow.
 
  #3  
Old 03-21-06, 11:08 AM
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Electrons do indeed flow up and down an open circuit wire that is connected to an alternating voltage source. But I wouldn't call it "electricity" (an ill-defined word). It's enough to create a magnetic field that can be detected by a non-contact voltage tester. But in the large scheme of things, the number of electons is incredibly tiny compared with what flows in a completed circuit.

And yes, a wire dangling in free air can be "hot" (another ill-defined word).

And I'm not sure you ever qualify as completely "not grounded".

I'm not sure what kind of "tester" you used, but that is a very ill-defined word.

We're not speaking with enough precision to make any sense.
 
  #4  
Old 03-21-06, 11:39 AM
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The hot wire can actually be dangling in free air and it is still hot.
Yes, voltage is a potential. Those thousands of miles of transmission wires are dangling in the air, and are very much 'hot'.

In other words you will receive a shock by touching it even if you are not grounded.
Grounding really has nothing to do with it; it's the difference in potential which allows a shock to happen. The Earth just happens to be a good reference to call 0 volts. Touch two hot phases in a three phase system and you will definately get a shock without being grounded.

Electricity flows up and down the hot wire at all times
No it doesn't. The electrons do not flow without a complete circuit, their potential changes with respect to time which can be detected by various testers.

I should of had a short to ground and lit the light, but the extra fence wire loaded down the transformer so no current, or to little current would flow to light my tester.
The actual dirt of the Earth is a very poor conductor. A single wire electric fence won't even work in dry soil or if the fence transformer is not well grounded with multiple rods. Additionally, a fence energizer pulses the charge on the fence about once per second for about 100ms. Many testers are not sensitive enough to catch that.
 
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Old 03-21-06, 02:45 PM
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All this really has little to do with an electric fence. You are dealing with direct current, high voltage and low amperage with intermittent pulsing of the charge. Your charger is grounded at the source and touching the wire requires a ground to feel a shock. When I had a cattle farm, I ran nearly a mile of New Zealand type fencing (#9 wire) at 8400 volts. You could see it arc to a cows nose in the evening (assuming they were stupid enough to touch it more than once). The top 3 wires were charged and the bottom one was grounded. During a dry summer without sufficient grounding properties, unless a calf touched the bottom wire along with a charged wire, they felt nothing. Thankfully I have good herding dogs. If you live in an area with a good deal of lightning, don't forget to install a suppressor link in line per manufacturer's specs.
 
  #6  
Old 03-21-06, 04:32 PM
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electric fence

My tester is connected from the hot wire of the fence and the other end is stuck in the ground. How can it work 1 foot from the transformer with 20 feet of fence wire and not work when there is 150feet of fence wire?

Maybe it has something to do with having less potential if in fact I complete the circuit to the bad conducting ground with the tester and there is no actual current flow in the open ended wire before connecting the tester?

Also how can I have any DC as one previous resonder indicated. It is a 120volt, 60hz, red snapper transformer with a labeled 2 mile range; no amp rating is listed. It is not labeled a rectifier on the package for the possibility of DC pulses.
 
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Old 03-21-06, 05:58 PM
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Let me toss this out just to solicit a response.

DO you have to be grounded to recieve a shock?

The reason I ask this is from years ago when doing work out of an insulated bucket truck in a 345 Kv substation. Even though the circuit we were working on was "de-energized", (and only about 40 feet long), it was directly beneath an energized 345 Kv bus. If you touched it lightly, you got a very uncomfortable "bite". The technique was to grab it firmly and, once your potential was equalized, not let go until you finished what you were doing.

I'm assuming this was more of a capacitive charge than an actual current path, but it still hurt.

Any theories?
 
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Old 03-22-06, 02:17 AM
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DO you have to be grounded to receive a shock?
Not to receive a charge.

> The reason I ask this is from years ago when doing work out of an
> insulated bucket truck in a 345 Kv substation.
> Even though the circuit we were working on was "de-energized",
> (and only about 40 feet long), it was directly beneath an energized
> 345 Kv bus.
> If you touched it lightly, you got a very uncomfortable "bite".
> The technique was to grab it firmly and, once your potential
> was equalized, not let go until you finished what you were doing.

Sounds like a charge, e.g., static electricity.


> I'm assuming this was more of a capacitive charge than an actual
> current path, but it still hurt.

Same as static electricity in the house.
High voltage, insignificant current.
 
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Old 03-22-06, 04:11 AM
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Originally Posted by bolide
Sounds like a charge, e.g., static electricity.
So is "static" an equalization of charges irrespective of ground?
 
  #10  
Old 03-22-06, 04:30 AM
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Electric Fence

The argument that electricity jumps from one phase to another when not grounded may be true, but note that the electricity goes from one phase to the next phase through your body and that the next phase it jumps to is a completed circuit I would say.

Since my electric fence is not a completed circuit, but rather open ended, it is interesting why adding an extra 150 feet of fence wire makes the current tester not light up when it is still only 1 foot from the transformer and making a path from the fence at 1 foot to the ground, albeit the ground itself is not a good conductor as a previous responder pointed out. Why would the transformer see extra voltage potential by adding 150 foot when it has a path to ground at 1 foot, so the current tester should light up the same and flash the current pulses the same.
 
  #11  
Old 03-22-06, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by eeee
The argument that electricity jumps from one phase to another when not grounded may be true
It is true.

> but note that the electricity goes from one phase to the next phase through
> your body and that the next phase it jumps to is a completed circuit I would say.
Yes, it is.

> Since my electric fence is not a completed circuit, but rather open-ended,
So you hope.

> it is interesting why adding an extra 150 feet of fence wire makes the current
> tester not light up when it is still only 1 foot from the transformer and making
> a path from the fence at 1 foot to the ground,

Then it is shorted.

> albeit the ground itself is not a good conductor as a previous responder pointed out.

The ground is a good conductor.


> Why would the transformer see extra voltage potential by adding 150 foot

It would not.


> when it has a path to ground at 1 foot, so the current tester should light up
> the same and flash the current pulses the same.

You are mistaken.

If the fence is grounded, it will pull the potential very low.

Eliminate the shorts in the fence.
You might have a bad insulator.
 

Last edited by bolide; 03-22-06 at 05:25 PM.
  #12  
Old 03-22-06, 08:40 AM
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Oh man, where do I start?

Maybe in order, and I won't mention any names

Electricity "going up and down". Humerous, not very descriptive, and not something I hear "engineers" refer. I think you mean "AC" , or alternating current. If there's no current (only voltage), one has a hard case to describe any traveling...

In the electrical world, current MUST exist before a magnetic field exists. There was a mistaken reference to magnetic field, should be electric field. The little battery operated testers sense electric fields, not magnetic fields. These work even with no amperes in the line to be tested.

Talking about shocks and shock hazards. I hope no one here believes you need to be grounded to be shocked or to be killed by electricity. It is a very common way to feel a shock, because all of our residential power systems do use local ground as a reference. There are numerous examples of people dying of electrocution with the earth not in the circuit.
Here's a good question? Can you be shocked by touching a non-conductor?? Well, have you ever pulled a wool sweater out of your dryer and received a shock? The answer is YES! Static is a notorious factor in many explosions and factory issues, ESPECIALLY in a non-conductive environment.

The 350kv substation story is a good one. It talks to a locally induced electric field. The overhead 350kv lines set up a field starting at the line and runing to ground. If you were to install even a short, parallel transmission line half way to the HV lines, there would be an unloaded ac voltage present of 350kv/2= 175kv. It would, however not sustain much of any current, so touching that line would not be a hazard.

Sorry, I don't understand your fence issue. Have you put a voltmeter on the end of the fence, reference the grounded term on the transformer? THis can't be that difficult to solve, even out of state.
 
  #13  
Old 03-22-06, 11:12 AM
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> not something I hear "engineers" refer.

Makes one wonder what they teach these days.


> I hope no one here believes you need to be grounded to be shocked
> or to be killed by electricity.

You just need to be in the circuit.


> If you were to install even a short, parallel transmission line half way to the HV lines,
> there would be an unloaded ac voltage present of 350kv/2= 175kv.

Well, suppose that the parallel line is equidistant to all three phase conductors and there is no neutral current.


> Have you put a voltmeter on the end of the fence, reference the grounded term
> on the transformer?

We use a neon bulb.

The problem is that there is a short to ground in the new section.
It could be a defective insulator or a construction error (wire touching metal post).
 
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Old 03-22-06, 04:52 PM
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Don't put a volt meter to the electric fence unless it is rated for over 10,000 volts, or unless you kiss it before you hook it up. It will fry the voltage testing circuit in it. Use an electric fence tester, either a neon bulb, or a digital readout meter made specifically for electric fences. Mine is made by Gallagher, who also manufactures the charger and suppression equipment necessary for proper installation.
 
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Old 03-22-06, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by WFO
So is "static" an equalization of charges irrespective of ground?
If we are not getting to technical, yes.
Electric current is flowing - moving energy from producer to consumer.

Static electricity is a standing charge - usually thought of as an excess of electrons but could be a deficit.
 
  #16  
Old 03-22-06, 05:39 PM
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good point on the HV meter

Don't put a volt meter to the electric fence unless it is rated for over 10,000 volts
I need to realize that having a 30kv probe like I do for a DVM is not typical. A byproduct of my TV repair days.
 
  #17  
Old 03-22-06, 06:24 PM
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Electric Fence

Thanks guys for your input. I previously considered the possibility of the short to ground and tested this theory and that is why I ruled this out. That is why I took a hot 4 foot piece of fence wire which extened 4 foot from the positive terminal of the transformer, layed it on the ground and put a metal hammer on top of the fence wire laying on the wet ground. I expected my tester would not light due to the short under the hammer with the fence wire touching the wet ground. The tester still flashed like there was no short to ground. It has been raining a lot here lately.

After hearing all of your theories (which I no most of them are fact), I think my test must have been a fluke and I must have a short in my 150feet of fence wire to ground. I'll experiment with it and keep the 150feet of fence wire off the ground since it to is coiled up on the wet ground. I figured that would not be a problem since my 4 foot of fence wire I experimented with did not short to ground when laying on the wet ground.
 
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Old 03-22-06, 10:05 PM
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yes, it is shorted to ground

> That is why I took a hot 4 foot piece of fence wire which extended 4 feet from
> the positive terminal of the transformer, laid it on the ground and put a metal
> hammer on top of the fence wire lying on the wet ground.
> I expected my tester would not light due to the short under the hammer with
> the fence wire touching the wet ground. The tester still flashed like there was
> no short to ground.

There wasn't much contact, probably less than 1 square inch and very little pressure.


> After hearing all of your theories (which I know most of them are fact),
> I think my test must have been a fluke and I must have a short in my
> 150feet of fence wire to ground.
> I'll experiment with it and keep the 150feet of fence wire off the ground
> since it to is coiled up on the wet ground.

You aren't kidding?
That's an obvious short to ground.


> I figured that would not be a problem since my 4 foot of fence wire
> I experimented with did not short to ground when lying on the wet ground.

Well, 150' makes a lot more and better contact by far than 4'.
So your experiment was not a fluke, it was not representative of the real circumstance.

You can't have a roll of attached wire lying on the ground in the rain.
It needs to be up on a plastic stake.
 
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Old 03-23-06, 04:17 AM
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Originally Posted by eeee
I previously considered the possibility of the short to ground and tested this theory ....
Reminds me of how I was told to test a fence (I've told this here before, so humor me for a minute ).

My Boss told me to take a long stem of grass, hold it at one extreme end, touch the other to the wire and slowly move it up until you felt a tingle.
So I do this, moving closer and closer, but still no tingle.
Until, of course, my Boss reaches over and touches my ear lobe.

Yep, that fence was hot!
...and so was I
 
  #20  
Old 03-23-06, 04:44 PM
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Electric Fence

I picked the 150 foot piece of fence off the ground and it works now. The dog chewed up my extension cord and had to get a new one. Problem now is there is no shock after I observed the bloodhound checking out my fence and then I proceeded to touch it. The tester shows there is juice though. HMM.

I think I better connect two more 8 foot ground rods. My friend had an electric fence and a short ground rod and it worked, but he was only running 4 feet to keep his dog off a 4 foot section of his fence. 4 foot or 150 foot should not make a difference. I am just unlucky. I sure got a shock when I touched his 4 foot long electric fence.

The only thing that could keep me from buying two more 8 foot sections of ground rod possibly is the fact that my ground rod connector fits my 8 foot ground rod loosely, or the fact that my 8 foot ground rod is only 4 feet in the ground. Wish I had a sledge hammer. Since the ground is still wet, I'll give it a couple of more wacks with the hammer.

By the way, I just wanted to know something so I connected the hot wire to the ground terminal of the transformer bypassing my ground rod and it worked like I suspected-the light on the transformer blinked, but very slowly. The plug in the extension cord has a ground obviously, even though the transformer has no nuetral wire. Must not be a good ground because the tester did not even pick up the AC pulse.
 
  #21  
Old 03-23-06, 05:34 PM
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>The plug in the extension cord has a ground obviously, even though the transformer has no neutral
> wire. Must not be a good ground because the tester did not even pick up the AC pulse.

A fencer is something that you do not want directly bonded to your house GES as it generates a lot of noise.

The fencer transformer needs to be directly grounded to the earth.

The ground rod "connector" must clamp down tightly.

There is no point in having two more rods unless they are 75' apart.

What are you doing with an extension cord?
 
  #22  
Old 03-23-06, 06:00 PM
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Electric Fence

75 feet between ground rods. Maybe if I get the ground rod much deeper in the earth it will help and get the right size ground rod connector.

The extension cord goes from the house receptcacle to the transformer.

You give me a couple of ideas. Connect the transformer directly to the house receptacle. Also add in another transformer in series, but I better not do that, since the instructions say you can cause harm. I would have to check the fence wire for safe current levels before letting the dog near. Digging that ground rod deeper needs to happen also, maybe a big rock would do it. Don't want to cough up the 50 bucks for a sledge hammer. I got a shovel, but that would soften up the earth and that is not good.

I have the ground rod about 2 1/2 feet from the transformer near the back fence of the back yard. I don't want it near the house since the house has ground rods that will cause noise on my ground rod. I have an outdoor receptacle near on the patio. I think I'll plug the transformer directly in to that.
 
  #23  
Old 03-23-06, 06:34 PM
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how about just some barbed wire?

trade in the high voltage generator for some leather gloves and some pliers.
 
  #24  
Old 03-23-06, 08:09 PM
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no dogs were killed by my experiment ..... so far

Originally Posted by eeee
Maybe if I get the ground rod much deeper in the earth it
Not unless your ground gets really dry.
But if you ground is that dry, then it is probably dry all around the fence.
A dog's feet don't sink in 8' in dry ground anyway. 4' is plenty.
If the ground is dry, you'll just have to irrigate.


> will help to get the right size ground rod connector.

Yes! an acorn clamp.


> The extension cord goes from the house receptacle to the transformer.

A "ground" on that is irrelevant to the operation of the fence.
That protects you only from an internal fault.


> Connect the transformer directly to the house receptacle.

Transformer? You mean a fence charger.


> Also add in another transformer in series,

Isn't there a bar you should be tending?


> I would have to check the fence wire for safe current levels before letting the dog near.

How do you propose to do this??


> Don't want to cough up the 50 bucks for a sledge hammer.

Maybe there will be a big tipper tonight.


> I got a shovel, but that would soften up the earth and that is not good.

Wouldn't hurt a thing. Digging an 8' deep hole would give you something to do without risking anyone's life (or any dog's life).


> I have the ground rod about 2 1/2 feet from the transformer near the
> back fence of the back yard.

That's fine.
 

Last edited by bolide; 03-24-06 at 04:34 PM.
  #25  
Old 03-23-06, 08:38 PM
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After discussion with my colleagues, we conclude that because you are able to drive the ground rods (a/k/a electrodes) 4' into the ground, you should space them no more than 5 inches apart around the perimeter of the area to be enclosed.
This will be effective in constraining your dog without the need to run up your electric bill since you won't even have to plug in the transformer during operation.
Because each rod is independently grounded, there is no risk of electrocuting your dog, and there is minimal step potential between adajacent rods should an animal get between them.

We're sure you can see that this is by far the safest solution for all concerned.
 
  #26  
Old 03-23-06, 10:36 PM
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Electric Fence

All electric fences have tranformers if this is what you mean by a fencer?

Got a little old lady next door that wants to call police on the bloodhound, so I got to get the electric fence working. Barbed wire is dangerous on people, plus restrics movement, mowing the yard etc. The electric fence keeps dog off fence and scaring the lady when she takes out the trash. Cutting his barking down is my bigger problem and I am working on that too.

The barbed wire is a good idea though although I don't want it, but damn I need the self confidence of getting this electric fence working. Don't want this thing to kick my behind.

The many ground rods you talk of is a joke I see, but know you have helped me and appreciate it.

My friend had a small fence wire for his 4 foot fence that worked. My big wire may not mate with the screw down connectors on the red snapper transformer, 120VAC. I need to set up a 4 foot long stretch of fence wire and touch it to see if it works. The tester is useless since it does not measure shock level.

I can test it with an ammeter in series with the wire and a voltmeter across the terminals of the transformer. I'll bury the ground rod 8 feet if I have to with a shovel. Tighter fitting ground rod connector is needed. I have the right kind, it is shaped live a v on both sides to clamp to the rod and has a screw down screw for the wire.
 
  #27  
Old 03-23-06, 11:32 PM
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Unhappy If I get this working, someone will get killed

> All electric fences have transformers if this is what you mean by a fencer?

A transformer? No. An inductance coil.


> Barbed wire is dangerous on people

So is a transformer.


> My big wire may not mate with the screw down connectors

There are workarounds.


> on the red snapper transformer

Do you have a photo of this?


> I can test it with an ammeter in series

No. You are missing the point.
The current is limited to a safe level by the inherent nature of the coil.

How much current are you expecting?

How can you read it?


> I'll bury the ground rod 8 feet if I have to with a shovel.

Why stop at 8?


> Tighter fitting ground rod connector is needed.
> I have the right kind,

Wrap some duct tape around the rod to make it thicker so your clamp will work...


> it is shaped live a v on both sides

That's an indoor clamp for metallic pipe.
If you are using a 1/2" or 5/8" grounding electrode, you need a direct-burial clamp. It has a profile remniscent of an acorn.
 
  #28  
Old 03-24-06, 01:26 AM
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Maybe this link will have something.

http://www.kencove.com/stafix/energiser.htm#3
 
  #29  
Old 03-24-06, 03:28 AM
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I have used electric fences to keep dogs in many times in past. I simply cut many short lengths of pvc and drove them in the ground about 6 inches from fence and up about 6 to 8 inchs from ground and with holed drilled at the top of pvc I ran a wire thru each pvc wire holder.Installed a ground rod I think 5 ft in the ground and right beside the transformer and with this setup I had no more problems with dogs digging out. Of course he tried couple times but ended up in the middle of yard licking pawls. He would sit for hours and look at that wire wondering what the heck got him.
I also noticed that after the wire was on for several weeks I could turn it off for months before he
would start trying to dig out again. The original question was about about shocks and grounding of course you can get shocked if the voltage is high enough and the distances is short enough. Air is not a perfect insulator if it was lightning during storms would not be a problem.

Larry
 
  #30  
Old 03-24-06, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by eeee
Also how can I have any DC as one previous resonder indicated. It is a 120volt, 60hz, red snapper transformer with a labeled 2 mile range; no amp rating is listed. It is not labeled a rectifier on the package for the possibility of DC pulses.
A typical fence charger isn't a transformer itself, but it does use one in its principal of operation.

A fence charger charges a capacitor through a rectifier, and an oscillator triggers an SCR, which dumps the charge from the capacitor into the transformer. The current dump creates a magnetic field, which when it collapses, induces a current in the secondary winding of the transformer, which connects to the fence and ground terminals. The ground terminal needs its own GEC system. The ground prong on the AC plug ony grounds the inside components.
 
  #31  
Old 03-24-06, 04:30 PM
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Originally Posted by eeee
how can I have any DC as one previous responder indicated. ... It is not labeled a rectifier on the package for the possibility of DC pulses.
Nor is it labeled a transformer.

It produces DC pulses from magnetic field collapse as classicsat described.

It is not stepping up (transforming) AC voltage to a higher AC voltage and dumping that onto the fence!
 
  #32  
Old 03-25-06, 08:52 AM
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Electric Fence

That's right, this fence of mine can not be a transformer. A transformer, with the exception of an isolation transformer is used to step up or step down voltage. I don't know what my voltage is from fence wire to ground or what the current is in the wire. It is a pulse evident from the tester, but may me a dc pulse as you say when the SCR and Cap are considered and the coiled wire inside.

The connector is not a straight V on both sides. It is shaped like an acorn I think. It is a curved in V on one side and a curved out V on the other side. I will go to the hardware store, make sure they don't come in a smaller size that I am afraid they won't, then try the duck tape idea, dig the hole with the shovel, then plant that ground rod 8 feet tape. I really think I need thin wire for the fence. I fear my cheap tin coated brass (I think) screw down connector on the generating unit (I will call it instead of a transformer) does not mate good with my thick fence wire. Thick wire carries electricity better I know from the math which has cross section on the bottom of the fraction for cacluating wire resistance. Thick wire is useless if it does not mate with the screw down connector good.

You might think I am crazy, but I noticed my tester seemed to flash brighter I think sometimes. I will try a 4 foot test, put on rubber gloves and have the dog touch it with his tail. I am sure I could touch it myself and I may since as you say these generating units (fencers) are inherently designed safe.

The previous resonder with the PVC idea lost me. You seemed to be concerned with the dog digging under. You bury the PVC, dop wire down the PVC somehow, then drop a ground rod down one of the PVCs I think you said. I don't know what you are doing with the wire you drop down the PVC unless you are funning the PVC parallel to and under the ground when you say this prevents the dog from digging under.

My dog is bad. He chewed up my extension cord cause he knew my work was for his bad day. He poops in my house when I let him in late. This bloodhound is too smart. He chews up the kids shoes, my wifes clothes and mine only when he is mad at us. He also loves my kids poop filled diapers, but you don't need to know that. He is getting better at not eating our food on the table when we step out. He has some forgiving grace so he is not destined for a doggy bad place after he dies.
 
  #33  
Old 03-25-06, 09:16 AM
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Why not just buy one of those "invisible fences"? You bury a wire around the perimeter of your property. When the dog approaches this buried wire, the dog hears a warning beep from his electronic collar. If the dog continues forward, he receives a "correction", also known as a shock. I have one on my property and it works well.
 
  #34  
Old 03-25-06, 10:37 AM
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Originally Posted by eeee
The connector is not a straight V on both sides. It is shaped like an acorn I think. It is a curved in V on one side and a curved out V on the other side.
I know exactly what it looks like. You have entirely the wrong clamp.


> I will go to the hardware store, make sure they don't come in a smaller size that
> I am afraid they won't,

You don't have a direct burial clamp.


> then try the duck tape idea,

12¢ short of a bit.


> dig the hole with the shovel,
> then plant that ground rod 8 feet deep.

You never dug a hole before either, did you?


> I really think I need thin wire for the fence.
> I fear my cheap tin coated brass (I think) screw down
> connector on the generating unit

Fencer or charger.

> does not mate good with my thick fence wire.

Astounding.

> Thick wire carries electricity better I know from the math

No, for a fence thick wire has more mechanical strength.
Resistance is futile. You will be assimilated.


> Thick wire is useless if it does not mate with the screw down connector good.

So splice in a short piece of a narrower gauge.
Or add a fender washer.


> You might think I am crazy,

Indubitably.


> but I noticed my tester seemed to flash brighter I think sometimes.

Yes. It depends on the circuit resistance and that of any parallel circuits.


> I will try a 4 foot test, put on rubber gloves and have the dog touch it with his tail.

You are cruel. Do not do this!


> I am sure I could touch it myself and I may since as you say
> these generating units (fencers) are inherently designed safe.

It won't kill you. But it should make your arm numb..
 
  #35  
Old 03-25-06, 11:59 AM
Andrew's Avatar
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Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: USA
Posts: 930
Anecdote....
When I was 14, I spent a summer in Minnesota at a cousin's farm. There was an electric fence surrounding the pig pen, and although I knew the fence was electrified, I figured I could slide UNDER it without getting bit.
WRONG
Not only did I get zapped repeatedly, I got stuck. I had to reach around with my bare hand and rip that wire loose from my beltloop.
I can attest to the power of a fencer; I have experienced it, and while it hurt plenty, it left no lasting effect. You don't want you kids to touch it though.
It is overkill for a dog--perhaps literally. Stick with an invisible fence designed for dogs.
Trust me!
 
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