Help with residential norms/Code

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  #1  
Old 03-24-06, 03:32 PM
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Help with residential norms/Code

Okay, guys, I need some residential help. I'm assisting a friend with his room addition and most of my experience is commercial/industrial. I'm experienced running the NM, etc, but have a few questions about how some other things work, and you can help me through some unfamiliar territory in the Code.

Is there a limit to the number of outlets (lights and receptacles) to a 20A circuit? The loads will be light, but we are at 10 receptacles and 6 lights on the circuit.

Today he decided he's also going to move the washer/dryer into the new room. My understanding is that laundry requires a separate circuit that only feeds the laundry area. Now, it is a gas dryer, so that also requires 120V. Do these EACH need a 120V circuit? If so, can I split a duplex? If so, does this need to be a 2-pole breaker so that they trip at the same time?

My understanding is that 15A switches are fine on this 20A circuit because the switched loads are just normal ceiling lights, but I still need #12 wire from switch to lights, correct?

Most of the receptacles will be GFCI. For these, I thought the deeper (22 cu. in. instead of 18 cu. in.) plastic boxes would be nice for the room for the wires. They are being installed in 2x4 walls, though, which is putting the back of those boxes very close to the other side of the wall, and of course, the NM enters the box in the back corners, very close to where the other side of the wall is. So is there a concern about this? It's right next to a stud, so if a screw were to miss a stud at the right place, it would easily pierce the wire. Is there already a convention in place for what we're doing?

I'm using the round plastic ceiling boxes for the lights, but for a ceiling receptacle I still use a normal plastic receptacle box, right? And I still use a normal receptacle (rectangular) plastic box for wall-mounted lights as well, right?

Any issues with using Square D breakers in this Bryant panel? The base is the same and it fits perfectly. I did notice there are also Gould/ITE breakers in it as well. Should I be using Seimens breakers, since they are ITE (is that right?) ?

Lastly, I'd like to use surface-mounted EMT from the top of the panel into the attic. Do I need to use a J-box to transfer to NM (even if I just strip the jacket so there are no splices in this J-box...)? Or can I use some sort of bushing at the end of the EMT and just run the NM through it? If so, can the jacket be stripped anywhere inside the EMT, or must I wait until it enters the panel?

Thanks for the residential help.
 
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  #2  
Old 03-24-06, 04:09 PM
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> Is there a limit to the number of outlets (lights and receptacles) to a 20A circuit?

No.

> The loads will be light, but we are at 10 receptacles and 6 lights on the circuit.

It's your call. I think you need another circuit.


> Do these EACH need a 120V circuit?

No.

> May I split a duplex?

Yes.


> If so, does this need to be a 2-pole breaker so that they trip at the same time?

No, but don't you think that's the safest way??


> My understanding is that 15A switches are fine on this 20A circuit
> because the switched loads are just normal ceiling lights, but
> I still need #12 wire from switch to lights, correct?

All correct!

> of course, the NM enters the box in the back corners, very close to where the other
> side of the wall is. So is there a concern about this?

Yes. You must be 1.5" behind the surface from both sides.


> I'm using the round plastic ceiling boxes for the lights,

Metal is hard to burn and supports more weight.


> but for a ceiling receptacle I still use a normal plastic receptacle box, right?

Yes.

> I still use a normal receptacle (rectangular) plastic box for
> wall-mounted lights as well, right?

You may.


> Any issues with using Square D breakers in this Bryant panel?

How old is the panel?


> I'd like to use surface-mounted EMT from the top of the panel into the attic.
> Do I need to use a J-box to transfer to NM

No, just a clamp.


> If so, can the jacket be stripped anywhere inside the EMT,
> or must I wait until it enters the panel?

How long is this EMT?

Anyway, this one issue is hotly debated.
 
  #3  
Old 03-24-06, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by bolide
I think you need another circuit...


> If so, does this need to be a 2-pole breaker so that they trip at the same time?

No, but don't you think that's the safest way??...


You must be 1.5" behind the surface from both sides.


How old is the panel?


How long is this EMT?
I agree with the second circuit. So far, they are hesitant for the minor extra cost.

I also agree with the 2-pole breaker for a split duplex. If I recommend two circuits for washer/dryer, they would go with it. So, what is normal for a laundry with a 120V gas dryer?

I guess I will replace those long plastic boxes with metal ones. Last thing I want to fight with is 8 GFCI receptacles in small plastic boxes.

I'd guess the panel is 15-25 years old, based on the when that side of town was developed.

I would need only 5 or 6 feet of EMT to reach the attic, but it will not be an accessible attic space, so I couldn't have a j-box anyway, unless it had a blank cover plate into the garage.

Thanks for your helpful experience, Bolide.
 
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Old 03-24-06, 10:58 PM
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> If I recommend two circuits for washer/dryer, they would go with it.
> So, what is normal for a laundry with a 120V gas dryer?

No problem with sharing a circuit.

But 6 lights and 10 (!!) more outlets suggests that you want another circuit.



> I'd guess the panel is 15-25 years old, based on the when that side
> of town was developed.

Use any Type BR breakers. The warranty is irrelevant.


> I would need only 5 or 6 feet of EMT to reach the attic
Personally, I would run conduit to the next box.
 
  #5  
Old 03-25-06, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by bolide
> May I split a duplex?

Yes.


> If so, does this need to be a 2-pole breaker so that they trip at the same time?

No, but don't you think that's the safest way??
I thought the 2002 or 2005 code now required that two circuits on one yoke have a common trip. Am I mistaken?

Originally Posted by bolide
> of course, the NM enters the box in the back corners, very close to where the other
> side of the wall is. So is there a concern about this?

Yes. You must be 1.5" behind the surface from both sides.
1999 NEC 300-4 says 1-1/4" from nearest framing member, not behind surface. Standoffs are available to maintain this, at least for some boxes. Has this changed:

(d) Cables and Raceways Parallel to Framing Members. In both exposed and concealed locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed parallel to framing members, such as joists, rafters, or studs, the cable or raceway shall be installed and supported so that the nearest outside surface of the cable or raceway is not less than 1-1/4 in. (31.8 mm) from the nearest edge of the framing member where nails or screws are likely to penetrate.

Originally Posted by bolide
> I still use a normal receptacle (rectangular) plastic box for
> wall-mounted lights as well, right?

You may.
Not that it's relevant, but isn't there a lower weight limit on fixtures hung from 6-32 screws as opposed to 8-32?
 
  #6  
Old 03-25-06, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by bolide
> I would need only 5 or 6 feet of EMT to reach the attic
Personally, I would run conduit to the next box.
Duh! I wonder how long I would have stared at it before I thought of that... Thanks. What with more circuits now, I'll probably still come up with something along those lines. I may still wind up with a fishable wall above the panel, though. I'll check again on that first.
 
  #7  
Old 03-25-06, 08:32 AM
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Originally Posted by ArgMeMatey
1999 NEC 300-4 says 1-1/4" from nearest framing member, not behind surface. Standoffs are available to maintain this, at least for some boxes. Has this changed:

(d) Cables and Raceways Parallel to Framing Members. In both exposed and concealed locations, where a cable- or raceway-type wiring method is installed parallel to framing members, such as joists, rafters, or studs, the cable or raceway shall be installed and supported so that the nearest outside surface of the cable or raceway is not less than 1-1/4 in. (31.8 mm) from the nearest edge of the framing member where nails or screws are likely to penetrate.
Good point! My 2005 says the same. So, does this mean I can just make sure the NM passes into the hole on the far side of the box instead of the stud-side?

Is it necessary to plug one of the holes in the plastic box that you aren't using anymore? How do you do it?
 
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Old 03-25-06, 12:36 PM
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> I still use a normal receptacle (rectangular) plastic box for
> wall-mounted lights as well, right?

In Mass, No. I don't know why but they want metal for wall sconces and such. But plastic in the ceiling ok. Go figure.

>nearest outside surface of the cable or raceway is not less than 1-1/4 in. (31.8 mm) from the nearest edge of the framing

I would assume the box to be part of the raceway. Am I wrong?
 
  #9  
Old 04-05-06, 09:25 PM
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Passed inspection on first shot. I wound up with EMT from panel straight up into the attic and then using an EMT/NM combo coupling. The NM jacket was intact through the entire EMT (6') and into the panel. It had two NM cables, the general purpose circuit and the laundry circuit.

Thanks for the help with the residential stuff. Now it looks like I'm getting a lot more of this work, too.
 
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