Dimmer Switch at End of Run

Reply

  #1  
Old 04-02-06, 11:21 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 278
Dimmer Switch at End of Run

I have a touch type dimmer for a single pole switch, which I want to install on an end of run setup where the power goes into the ceiling box first, then I have a black wire coming from the box and a white wire (taped black) going back to it. My directions don't cover this and I can't find it in my book. The dimmer has a red wire, a black wire, and a ground. Obviously, I know what to do with the ground, but does it matter which wire goes to red and black?

Thanks,

Tim
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-02-06, 11:51 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
First, you have the two wires at the ceiling box backwards. The white wire taped black need to be the always hot wire, and the black wire needs to be the switched wire.

What do you mean, ""My directions don't cover this and I can't find it in my book?"

What do the sirections state? If you have any directions for this switch then they tell you how to wire it. Read the directions. The always hot wire (which should be the whitetaped black) goes to one wire and the switched hot goes to the other wire.
 
  #3  
Old 04-02-06, 12:07 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Indianapolis, IN
Posts: 278
OK, I stated that wrong. I checked the diagram I used when I ran those wires, and indeed, the white taped black is always hot and the black is switched. GE's directions don't cover an end of run setup, but in the one diagram they do give, it has the hot wire attached to the black wire from the dimmer. I will attach that to the white taped black, and the red to the black wire that feeds the fixture.

Thanks for catching my error.

Edit: BTW, my Creative Homeowner Wiring book only gave directions for the old type of dimmer, and it stated that either lead can connect to either circuit wire. I knew that this newer type of switch is polarized, so I figured it did matter.
 
  #4  
Old 04-02-06, 06:00 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
My point is that the dimmer you have now and are wanting to install should have come with installation instructions.
 
  #5  
Old 04-02-06, 06:44 PM
bolide's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,909
What you said it what the diagram shows.

Do you mean that it doesn't cover a switch leg?
That is no different from two black wires.
That's why you re-marked the white as another color.
 
  #6  
Old 04-02-06, 07:16 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of Boston, MA.
Posts: 2,113
>The white wire taped black need to be the always hot wire, and the black wire needs to be the switched wire.<

As long as it is identified it can be either.


If this is an electronic dimmer, Disconnect the power BEFORE you wire it in, They will blow up (figuretvley), and then your out the $20.
 
  #7  
Old 04-02-06, 08:24 PM
bolide's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,909
>> The white wire taped black need to be the always hot wire,
>> and the black wire needs to be the switched wire.
Originally Posted by lectriclee
As long as it is identified it can be either.
It can be either what? painted or taped?

Unless someone made a stupid change to the NEC and didn't tell me, it can be used only as the supply conductor in a switch leg .
An originally white conductor may not be used for the return hot leg from the switch to the load no matter how you mark it.
 
  #8  
Old 04-03-06, 04:47 AM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
Originally Posted by lectriclee
>The white wire taped black need to be the always hot wire, and the black wire needs to be the switched wire.<

As long as it is identified it can be either.
The NEC requires for a switch loop that the reidentified white wire is to be the always hot wire.
 
  #9  
Old 04-03-06, 11:36 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,388
Originally Posted by racraft
The NEC requires for a switch loop that the reidentified white wire is to be the always hot wire.
Could you please post the applicable article? At least the number of the article?
 
  #10  
Old 04-03-06, 02:07 PM
Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Central New York State
Posts: 13,973
200.7 C 2.....
 
  #11  
Old 04-04-06, 07:42 PM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,388
Thank you, racraft. I'm going to have to read that at least 100 times because it doesn't quite sound like the same thing as being discussed.
 
  #12  
Old 04-04-06, 07:54 PM
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: North of Boston, MA.
Posts: 2,113
Whos better than You......

What do i do with my 2 blacks in a pipe... or my red and blue.. or my black and red etc.

None of us have ever dropped a switch leg without markings?

The first one to say "no" LIED.
(reason for marking is understood)
 
  #13  
Old 04-04-06, 08:48 PM
bolide's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: PA
Posts: 1,909
Originally Posted by furd
I'm going to have to read that at least 100 times because it doesn't quite sound like the same thing as being discussed.
Are you serious or joking?



Originally Posted by lectriclee
What do I do with my 2 blacks in a pipe... or my red and blue.. or my black and red etc.
Is this a question?


Originally Posted by lectriclee
None of us has ever dropped a switch leg without markings?
So you now decide who is lying? I have an extreme aversion to connecting a white wire to a breaker or a switch. I can tell you that I never hooked two whites (nor even a white re-identified to another color) to a light.

If I haven't re-identified a conductor first, then I won't land it on a breaker or switch. I dislike seeing a black and white wires together in a pressure connector. So I know I would re-identify the white. That's just the way I work. I re-identify the conductors before I have permission to connect them.

If I have a box with 14 wires sticking out, I'll have them all marked to the correct colors.
All the grounds go together (with pigtails if needed). Then I connect and pigtail the whites as needed. Then I connect and pigtail ungrounded conductors and travellers as needed. Then I connect devices to whatever conductors remain.
Since I plan it this way, the wires need to be marked.

Perhaps to you it's a crutch. But it works for me.

When I bring a cable into a panel, I always the the ground first, then the GC, if any, the the UGC(s).
I don't make to connection of the UGCs until downstream work is complete. I leave the breaker in the factory tripped state. That is, connecting the UGCs is the last thing I do before energizing the breaker (exception: in a brand new panel that isn't capable of being energized...).
 
  #14  
Old 04-05-06, 10:38 AM
Member
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Wet side of Washington state.
Posts: 18,388
[QUOTE=bolide]Are you serious or joking?

Semi-serious. I read the actual code statements and then went to bed. While lying in bed I decided that it made sense and after I got up this morning I made several other checks to see if it was worded a different way. I now fully understand the code requirement.

I am not an electrician but a retired engineer. I specialized in energy systems for thirty years so I am not unfamiliar with the NEC and I have done a fair amount of field wiring. I assumed (ALWAYS a bad thing to do) that once a white (or grey) conductor within a cable was "re-identified" it was no different than any other non-grounded conductor.

Point of fact is that I almost never install "switch legs" but instead run power (hot and neutral) to a switch location and then run the switched power and neutral to the light fixture.

Thanks for helping me understand this code issue.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'