Wiring for a pool....

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  #1  
Old 04-06-06, 06:36 AM
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Wiring for a pool....

I recently bought a pool and of course they fail to mention it needed special electrical work, they told me it would cost $600 to install and I assumed that included electrical if needed. Come to find out that’s another $600 if not more!!
A few people suggested I do it my self, they said because it’s my own property I can. Is that true?
How hard is it to do this? From what I can tell the hardest part is at the board. From what I’ve been told you have to bury a wire around the perimeter of the pool, put a ground rod in and then bury conduit to run the source wire thru. Seems pretty basic mostly just labor. Once I reach the house my basement is un finished so all I have to do is run the wire along the top of the wall.
Does anyone have any tips on how to do this or a link to instructions? Am I crazy to do it my self? Where can I find codes as to what I’m to comply to? I’m in RI
 
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  #2  
Old 04-06-06, 07:11 AM
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The information you have received is not accurate. In the US (and you forgot to tell us where you live), pools are extremely regulated as far as electrical work is concerned.

Whether you can do this yourself legally depends on the local municipality. Whether you should do this yourself depends on your skills and knowledge. Right now you lack the knowledge to do this yourself.

To undertake such a project, you need to fully understand electrical wiring and the codes that pertain to pools. The average person will not be able to get the necessary information by examining the NEC, as it is not written in layman's terms and is a large book.

Whether you have the work done or do it yourself, make sure that you have it inspected. Water and electricity do not go well together and doing something wrong could get you killed.

If you choose to have someone else do the work, make sure that they will do the whole job, including the necessary convenience receptacle, for example, and that they will guarantee that the pool will pass the electrical inspection when they are finished.
 
  #3  
Old 04-06-06, 07:56 AM
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get the necessary information by examining the NEC, as it is not written in layman's terms and is a large book.
Thats why I asked for help

I have wired my own basment before minus the board work, so I have some experiance. I agree it would help to look to a pro, but I had several people at one time tell me they did it alone and had no problems, the one guy did have it inspected. I just need to cut some cost some where. Do you think an electrician will give a lower price if I dig the trench my self?
 
  #4  
Old 04-06-06, 08:19 AM
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Pools have very specific regulations. I am assuming it is an above ground pool, based on the installation charge you mention.

You need a 20 amp circuit for the motor, GFCI protected before it leaves the house. Once it leaves the house it must be individual insulated conductors in conduit. The motor must be bonded to the pool and any metal around the pool (fence, ladder, etc). The motor must plug in with a twist lock connector and the connection must be five feet or more from the pool. If the connection is more than ten feet from the pool then a straight plug connection is allowed. You need a convenience receptacle located between ten and 20 feet from the pool.

There are other rules regarding other electric in the vicinity which apply, but aren't a factor if there isn't other electrical in the area.

I donít know if I have all the rules above or if I have forgotten any.
 
  #5  
Old 04-06-06, 04:59 PM
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The twist lock receptacle must have a weatherproof cover and a weatherproof shut off/kill switch must be present from the pump. There is the setup for the plug/switch at Lowes but is cheaper to get the pieces seperately. The hardest thing to find is the conductor wires that go in the PVC that goes in the trench and the 8 gauge grounding wire. A comprehensive set of rules is http://www.southwindsor.org/TownHall/Pool%20Packet.pdf
and how the outdoor run should look is here
http://www.rd.com/images/tfhimport/2...g001_size2.jpg

Lance
 
  #6  
Old 04-06-06, 05:16 PM
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What Lance has provided are instructions for one town. Your local codes may not be the same.
 
  #7  
Old 04-06-06, 05:25 PM
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The wire run in the conduit is not special. It is typical THHN/THWN insulated conductors.
Also, the #8 solid mentioned is NOT a ground, it is a bond. It does NOT have to encircle the whole pool, unless a local code mandates it.
A ground rod is NOT needed, required or wanted at a pool. The pool is NOT being grounded, the pool equipment is being bonded.

A switch is NOT required by the NEC, only a form of disconnect. The plug is a disconnect.

Please seek out local code information to see what the local requirements are and if they differ from the NEC.

This web page will help get you started:
http://www.selfhelpandmore.com/homew...bove/index.htm
 
  #8  
Old 04-06-06, 06:32 PM
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I'm sorry, I wasn't intending that to be specific for their town. Everyone I have seen so far asked for a specific disconnect. I realize that every town has their own set of rules but they all follow the same basic outline from what I have seen. My town provided me with a set that was identical but harder to follow. They also wanted the pool specs, pump specs, ladder specs, and alarms specs. In terms of the wiring involved, I haven't seen anything that someone with a basic familiarity with wiring couldn't do. It all has to be okayed by the building inspector anyway so it HAS to be to code. It was just tedious and time consuming to seek the specific how to do it information. There should be some comprehensable site that would offer the information or even a "kit" so that homeowners wouldn't have to piece everything together from scratching for information on the internet. If the wire run in the conduit is not special and is typical THHN/THWN insulated conductors then where does one purchase less than 1000' of it, in all three colors? Where do they sell 8 gauge copper wire? Lowes has 6 and 4 only.
Lance
 
  #9  
Old 04-06-06, 08:24 PM
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> If the wire run in the conduit is not special

It is not.


> and is typical THHN/THWN insulated conductors

It is. I hope this is settled.


> then where does one purchase less than 1000' of it,
> in all three colors?
> Where do they sell 8 gauge copper wire?
> Lowes has 6 and 4 only.

I am surprised that your local store no longer cuts smaller gauge wire. You can get it in all four colors cut to length from an electrical supplier.
 
  #10  
Old 04-07-06, 03:51 AM
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Originally Posted by BatMack
There should be some comprehensable site that would offer the information or even a "kit" so that homeowners wouldn't have to piece everything together from scratching for information on the internet.
I liken this to having your taxes done. It would be like asking; "I need to do my taxes and want to itemize, how do I do it?".
Is this a logical thing to ask without knowing quite a bit to begin with? Absolutely not.
Same goes for wiring, especially such things as a pool. There are way more things to consider than the actual article for pools. We have to consider the first three chapters of the code as well.
There is no "Turbo Tax" software available for home wiring. "Turbo Pool" is not yet out.



Originally Posted by BatMack
If the wire run in the conduit is not special and is typical THHN/THWN insulated conductors then where does one purchase less than 1000' of it, in all three colors? Where do they sell 8 gauge copper wire? Lowes has 6 and 4 only.
We must remember, Lowes, HD and the other mega stores are not the only places to buy electrical supplies. And they are NOT necessarily always the cheapest place to buy what they do offer.
There have been real electrical supply houses long before the big box stores came along.
 
  #11  
Old 04-07-06, 07:12 AM
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None of the materials you need are "special", All are readably available.Bond must be #8 solid.

The ruLes and regulations ARE, For safety reasons.
I personaly would not suggest that a pool be anyones first major electrical endeaver. Not when YOUR family and loved ones are involved(Or anyones).

Check with a few electricians, Do it correct and safe. I do not know of a single electrician that would NOT let you dig the trench. There are other less technical, labor involved tasks that you can do to save time and money. Most contractors will work with you on this.
 
  #12  
Old 04-07-06, 11:52 AM
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Copper #8 solid may be hard for the OP to find. Around me, none of the big box stores carry it, one of the supply houses is waaay expensive, and the other is a 35 mile drive.

You can use #8 or larger solid bonding wire. If the stores around you only carry #6 solid, it will cost a little more, but is legal and may save you a special trip. It MUST be solid wire though; #6 or #4 stranded is not acceptable.

680.26(C) Equipotential Bonding Grid. ...an equipotential bonding grid with a solid copper conductor, not smaller than 8 AWG...
 
  #13  
Old 04-07-06, 09:04 PM
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*Copper #8 solid may be hard for the OP to find. Around me, none of the big box stores carry it, one of the supply houses is waaay expensive, and the other is a 35 mile drive.*

You must do what you MUST do. Sorry
 
  #14  
Old 04-07-06, 09:45 PM
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My local supplier doesn't stock uncommon sizes of wire, cable, or conduit, nor all tools; but they order in pretty much whatever I want and it arrives either the next morning or within two days on the truck from their distributor.

And yes, almost all prices are better than the big stores, usually much better (except breakers), and all copper is soft. The store is not far from me, I get what I want, the service is excellent, and they have never charged me for a delivery.
 
  #15  
Old 04-10-06, 05:22 AM
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Looks like I will be calling the guy back. This is to much for me to figure out. But I will be asking what I can do to lower costs. What would you guys Pay/charge to do an 18’ round that is 30’ away from the house (then 40’ to the box). I want to make sure at least I’m getting a good price. Also what is done first the pool install or the elec? Each one is telling me they go first, but I’m not gonna wire one spot to find theres rock there and the pool goes elsewhere. Does the electrcain pull the permit or do I?
 
  #16  
Old 04-10-06, 05:49 AM
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The pool needs to be done before the electrical can be completed. While the electrician could get started, he or she would not want to place the electrical box only to find out he is one foot too close to the pool or one foot too far away.

$600.00 for electrical for a pool is not too much, especially if a thirty foot trench needs to be dug.

When I put my pool in, I had to apply for a permit. The pool company took a plot plan of my property that I supplied, drew in the pool and supplied the information. I went to the town hall and applied for the permit. The pool company wanted to see the permit before they started the work. My town does not do electrical inspections. Rather, they use an outside agency. I had to contact the agency and make arrangements for the inspector's visit myself, since I was doing the electrical work.

You will want a temporary hookup for the pump available the day that the pool goes in. In my case the pool company loaned me an adapter that converted the twist lock pool plug into a traditional standard plug, which I plugged into an extension cord. Then two or three days later after I did the electrical, I returned the adapter to the pool company.

Every pool company is different. I spoke with four different ones when I bought my pool. One would have done the legwork to get the permit for me. Two (including the one I chose) provided me what I needed, but I had to do the legwork. The last never mentioned that I needed a permit.
 

Last edited by racraft; 04-10-06 at 08:53 AM.
  #17  
Old 04-10-06, 08:34 AM
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Originally Posted by lectriclee
You must do what you MUST do. Sorry
I think you missed my point that #6 solid is an acceptable alternative to #8 solid if the OP cannot locate #8 solid. Buying a roll of #6 solid from Home Depot is probably cheaper than having #8 shipped from out of town.
 
  #18  
Old 04-27-06, 11:03 AM
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Does the NEC code allow me to use the same color (black) wire in the PVC conduit to the pool pump? I could tape/paint white and green on the ends to designate neutral and ground.

I'm trying to save money and buy a single 500 foot roll.
 
  #19  
Old 04-27-06, 11:39 AM
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No, you are not allowed to do this.
 
  #20  
Old 04-27-06, 12:16 PM
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> Does the NEC code allow me to use the same color (black) wire in the
> PVC conduit to the pool pump?
No.

> I could tape/paint white and green on the ends to designate neutral and ground.

White, no (NEC 220.6(A) 6 AWG or smaller).
Green, no (NEC 250.119(A) 6 AWG or smaller).
 
  #21  
Old 04-28-06, 04:46 AM
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Thank you for you answers, one additional question:
What is the type of wire that's allowed in the buried PVC conduit, THHN or THWN?
 
  #22  
Old 04-28-06, 04:49 AM
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You need wire rated for wet environments for outdoor conduit. The W in THWN indicates this. However, most of the wire you will find at the stores will be dual rated, both THHN and THWN.
 
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