RE: Side jobs

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  #1  
Old 04-07-06, 02:43 AM
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RE: Side jobs

Sme where in a related thread, SIDE JOBS, some one posted that it was unlikely for charges and dispsitions to be handed out for bad wireing.

Several yrs ago (4-8), There was an electrician in Rhode Island that was charged and sentenced to like 15/20 yrs for man slaughter, Due to shotty work. He installed baseboard heat, And after the fire and (I beleive 3 deaths)The investigation reveald OVER 29+- code violations. So it does happen, even if rare, To pros and novices alike.
There was another case elsewhere that an employee was charged (I can't place particulars now)Due to the fact that he was the professional in charge, on site.
So side work does not mean Hack, Some guys want/need extra cash.And to save tax money. The Idea is the same , BE TRAINED, KNOWLEDGABLE And DO IT RIGHT, Be insured. Don't lose every thing over a $100 outlet. Permits are for inspections, safety and to keep the honest person honest. And lets face it....For revenue to the towns etc.
 
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Old 04-07-06, 07:26 AM
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I would suggest that inspections from the town are not just revenue.
Lots of inspectors have found folks that install receptacles without proper terminations, hidden (not accessible) splice boxes, undersized conductors for the breaker, wrong sized breakers for the receptacle circuit, etc.
Those are all problems that can lead to high impedance faults, and eventually after some resulting heating .... fire.
In my home county, nobody except an electrician can do electrical work. The only exception is that a homeowner of a private residence (not multi unit), can take an electrical exam issued by the county, and if passed, can then install circuits in their own home. The homeowners exam is tough, not just neutral to silver screw type of stuff.
Some folks install their own service entry equipment without consideration of AIC ratings, branch circuit sizes, termination ratings, etc, again possibly leading to fire.
Sometimes it pays to have a professional rather than a fire.
 
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Old 04-07-06, 07:36 AM
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We had a situation here where a bus bench shelter thing was wired wrong and a kid was killed. I believe the electrician was charged with something serious, maybe negligent homocide.
 
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Old 04-07-06, 07:45 AM
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My take on the "revenue for the town" is this. A measureable percentage of structure fires are due to wiring problems. And, the same entity that is collecting electrical permit fees is the same entity that supports their local firefighters, correct? So, from a high level, when you pay your el. permit fee, some of that fee can be considered insurance $ to cover the next time the fire trucks roll.
The counter argument is that inspected jobs by a knowledgeable person are typically done "safer" than non inspected jobs, but the non-inspected jobs are not providing any town revenue. One fix for that is random structure inspections, including homes, with fines leved for significant code transgressions. Don't think many would agree to that, however.
 
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Old 04-07-06, 08:29 AM
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-when you pay your el. permit fee, some of that fee can be considered insurance $ to cover the next time the fire trucks roll.-

TRUE.

-but the non-inspected jobs are not providing any town revenue.-
true.

-inspected jobs by a knowledgeable person are typically done "safer" than non inspected jobs,-

99% of the time (unfortunately).

-One fix for that is random structure inspections, including homes, with fines leved for significant code transgressions. -

Not a bad idea, however now a whole new set of standards exceptions and the like would have to be implamented.
Existing stuff,stuff the home owner may not be aware of etc.

I don't have a better one,

-Don't think many would agree to that, however-

YA, Think your right.
 
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Old 04-07-06, 09:28 AM
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Originally Posted by lectriclee
-when you pay your el. permit fee, some of that fee can be considered insurance $ to cover the next time the fire trucks roll.-

TRUE.

-but the non-inspected jobs are not providing any town revenue.-
true.

-inspected jobs by a knowledgeable person are typically done "safer" than non inspected jobs,-

99% of the time (unfortunately).

-One fix for that is random structure inspections, including homes, with fines leved for significant code transgressions. -

Not a bad idea, however now a whole new set of standards exceptions and the like would have to be implamented.
Existing stuff,stuff the home owner may not be aware of etc.

I don't have a better one,

-Don't think many would agree to that, however-

YA, Think your right.
True about the portion of the fee going towards something else. This is true for all taxes and fees. Some of it probably goes to the prision system to help house shoddy electricians too.. But it makes you wonder why I need to take out a $55permit to install crown molding (in my city, that's a requirement)

So what you are saying, and please correct me if I'm wrong, is that 99% of the time inspected jobs are done safer than uninspected jobs? Please tell me that was just a misinterpretation on my part....
 
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Old 04-07-06, 10:25 AM
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Since I started that train of thought, i'll elaborate at bit. The context is electrical work, not woodwork. 99% may be high, but my words were "typically". That is, more often that not. The point was: A "hack" is more likely to cause electrical issues down the road with uninspected work. The hack may be a homeowner, or anyone else that knows his/her work will not be looked at by a trained eye.
 
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Old 04-07-06, 11:03 AM
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-A "hack" is more likely to cause electrical issues down the road with uninspected work. The hack may be a homeowner, or anyone else that knows his/her work will not be looked at by a trained eye.-

Exact point !

Unfortunately there are those who approach the feild differently, Depending on an inspection or not... THESE ARE "HACKS" And not proffesionals.
A pro will do the job correctly permit or not.That is just part of being an electrician. Some of the reasons we'll (i will include myself) go without a permit may seem foolish... Part time bussines, can't get time off from regular job. Permit app. inspection etc. takes more time and money than the job itself.

And you can't always pass that off to the consumer.
Myself I work full time, and have my own thing on the "SIDE", I am Insured.
I have found that Alot of people prefer to have someone come in on evenings or weekends,For some of the same reasons. A full time contractor would need to charge premium rates for this, rightfully so. I do not under cut, my prices reflect market for my area. There realy is enough work to go around here.
 
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Old 04-07-06, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by lectriclee
-A "hack" is more likely to cause electrical issues down the road with uninspected work. The hack may be a homeowner, or anyone else that knows his/her work will not be looked at by a trained eye.-

Exact point !
True. But remember that licensed electricians can also fall into this 'hack' category. Just because you're licensed doesn't mean you're perfect. Case in point; an electrician was doing some work on my neighbors house and installed grounding wire into receptacles boxes that were knob and tube (very unsafe) in the baby's nursery, then installed GFCI receptacles (unnecessary) because he said code stated that all bedroom receps need to be GFCI protected (wrong). But he only did this in the one bedroom..still wrong and inconsistently wrong to boot.

And this is a licensed electrician. I've also worked with guys who are not licensed who do great jobs to the point the inspector asks them if they are a pro, then are impressed that the guy is a desk jockey at some white-collar job, but has enough sense to do things right.

It goes both ways. The bottom line is if you are doing it yourself, better do it right. If you want to be absolutely sure, then get it inspected.
 
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Old 04-07-06, 01:19 PM
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Don't forget that inspectors can be hacks too. My sister recently bought a house from a retired State of Michigan electrical inspector; seeing this place really makes you question the inspection system. The wiring, mostly done by him, had several glaringly obvious code and safety violations throughout the house. Overfused conductors, outbuildings fed with more than one circuit each via buried NM, outbuildings daisy-chained without a subpanel, no GFCI protection anywhere, service "upgrade" with old re-used rubber & cloth service conductors feeding a re-used pushmatic panel (clearly junk he took away from a jobsite), the service entrance LB buried in the driveway asphalt....the list goes on and on. Despite all of this, all of the visible NM in the house was stapled in meticulously straight and parallel runs with concentric bends, weird. I've seen a lot of previous owner BS, but from an inspector?!?

Okay, there's my rant for the day.
 
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Old 04-07-06, 02:25 PM
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stapled in meticulously straight and parallel runs with concentric bends
Reminds me of the motto of the old Howard Johnsons restaurant. Make it look good, and make it hot!
 
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Old 04-07-06, 04:13 PM
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### But remember that licensed electricians can also fall into this 'hack' category. ####

No disagreement here, i tried to illustrate that. Perhaps I missed.
 
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Old 04-07-06, 04:25 PM
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##Don't forget that inspectors can be hacks too.##

Right on point!!! NOT ALL,MOST are, as should be, VERY GOOD and thorough!!!
Don't forget the golden rule..... "HE WITH THE GOLD RULES"

I started this thread for some dialog between pros and non--
I hope it has stimulated some thought for all of us...On both ends of the spectrum....

Thanks for taking part.
 
  #14  
Old 04-07-06, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by lectriclee

I started this thread for some dialog between pros and non--
I hope it has stimulated some thought for all of us...On both ends of the spectrum....

Thanks for taking part.
I believe it has, and has given me much to think about. Thanks !
 
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