to twist, or backstab?!?

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  #1  
Old 04-08-06, 04:25 PM
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to twist, or backstab?!?

Okay, I just put in my very first receptacle, in my new garage.
On a scale from one to ten, ten being the best, I rate a minus 3, or in laymens' terms, "I Suck!!"

It took me about a half hour, and I was almost in tears. Okay, maybe not tears, but pretty frustrated. I had quite a time getting the wire ends twisted just right, to fit on the terminals, that I was tempted to back stab all the connections, but I heard in a post that twisting and screwing the wires in is an overall better way.

After recently pulling my feeders through PVC, out to the garage, 57 feet away, I gained new respect for the electrician. But now, I put you all up on a pedestal. Tell me, is there an easy way to go about twisting the wire ends. Any info will be greatly appreciated!!!!
 
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  #2  
Old 04-08-06, 05:06 PM
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Tools and techniques help. I have a Klein screwdriver that makes the loops for me. Receptacles usually have a place on them to bend a loop in the wire.
 
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Old 04-08-06, 05:29 PM
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Hello, neighbor.

I use the hole in my strippers. Generally, I strip and make the hooks at the same time with the same tool.
 
  #4  
Old 04-08-06, 06:09 PM
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Make a plain U-Bend with needlenose. WIth practice, you can get the diameter of the bend just right to go over the screw. Make the short end of the U about 3/8". Slip it over the screw, then use the needle nose to pinch it in. It should be placed on the screw so the short side of the U is on the right, so as you tighten the screw it will not tend to try to open the loop.
 
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Old 04-08-06, 06:09 PM
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Making a "shepherd's crook" makes installation alot easier. After stripping about 3/4" off the end of the wire, take your needle nose pliers, bend the base of the wire about 45 degrees left. Then move the pliers to the tip of the wire, and complete 3/4ths of a circle to the right. After you do it a couple of thousand times it becomes second nature. The holes in the stripping pliers are conveniend, but the Klein strippers don't seem to have a strong enough tip to perform the bending.
 
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Old 04-08-06, 07:07 PM
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I also use needlenose pliers. When you have some spare time just grab yourself a piece of scrap wire and practice. You'll be surprised at how quickly you'll get the hang of making a good loop that will fit perfectly around a device screw. I also make a "shepard's crook" although I never thought of it that way. The trick is to use the different widths of the needlenose jaws to form the different parts of the loop.
I don't recommend backwiring receptacles that use spring tension to hold the wire (although personally I have never seen one that failed) however, some of the newer outlets use a compression clamp for backwiring. I will use that instead of the side screws.
 
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Old 04-08-06, 08:04 PM
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#some of the newer outlets use a compression clamp for backwiring. I will use that instead of the side screws.#

I would not suggest that you use these on solid wire, For as you twist and bend them into place they will loosen up.

#backwiring#= backstabbing

Somewhere I beleive this is not to code. Unless it is of the clamp type you have mentioned

2- tools are required. the pliers to strip and loop, and a screw driver to tighten. (untill you get it, you may find your own ways)

#wire ends twisted just right, to fit on the terminals,#

Were these stranded or solid conductors? Solid should not be a chore. Stranded, you should use "STAKe-ONS" a mechanical fitting wich is relativaley inexpensive and makes a secure connection.
All "hooks" Shepard or otherwise, should go in a "clock wise" direction, This way the "hook" tightens as does the screw.

Connections are VERY important in electrical work.
 
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Old 04-08-06, 08:05 PM
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The backwire receptacles with the screw down pressure plate are not new; they are simply standard on high grade receptacles. IMHO they are worth the extra expense, both for ease of attaching the wires, and because the rest of the receptacle is higher quality as well. The pressure plate is especially nice when you work with stranded wire.

-Jon
 
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Old 04-08-06, 08:33 PM
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Originally Posted by lectriclee
I would not suggest that you use these on solid wire, For as you twist and bend them into place they will loosen up.
It requires some care to make sure they are tight enough, that's all.

> backwiring= backstabbing

Where did you get this?
Backstabbing is horrible; backwiring is wonderful.


> Somewhere I believe this is not to code.

That would be nice. Then the manufacturer's would have to stop making them.



> Connections are VERY important in electrical work.

Maybe I'll start saying that I get $1 for connecting it, $5 for knowing how to connect it, and $10 for knowing what to connect, and $20 for knowing where to connect it.

Or are we taking about union jobs again?
 
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Old 04-08-06, 08:38 PM
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#Maybe I'll start saying that I get $1 for connecting it, $5 for knowing how to connect it, and $10 for knowing what to connect, and $20 for knowing where to connect it.

Or are we taking about union jobs again?#


YOU have more ISSUES than I do. And special screwdrivers.
 
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Old 04-08-06, 09:12 PM
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-backstabbing

Somewhere I beleive this is not to code-

>That would be nice. Then the manufacturer's would have to stop making them.<

Not realy, there are many,many,many things out there manufactured that are not to code or standards, For many industries. Check out the big box store, Pick a feild,or trade.
 
  #12  
Old 04-09-06, 01:10 PM
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REAL wirestrippers (not those pieces of trash that come with your 150-piece terminal connector set) have built-in holes for putting the loop in the end of the wire. They work extremely well and quickly. I have the Klein screwdriver that also does it, but it's far faster to strip and loop with the same tool in the same hand at the same time. I use the Klein-Kurve, blue-handled strippers. I also have handy Ideal large strippers that go up to #8.

I always wondered why Klein also makes a style like those cheap "wire strippers." Anybody have one? Any better? I was VERY disappointed with the Klein NM strippers that are supposed to cut the jacket, too. Useless. Thank goodness for return policies.
 
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Old 04-09-06, 01:18 PM
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Why not just a pair of 9in. klein pliers and a screw driver?
Is it so we can charge more? showing the customer all these "fancy" tools we have? Work smart! not hard!

Mac702,
You are right, spend the money (cash,currency, what ever) on the proper QUALITY tool for the job

Just me, but I work slower and get very tired carring my entire truck on my waist into the job.
 
  #14  
Old 04-09-06, 07:34 PM
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Great suggestions, guys. I'm actually getting better, wire by wire. Not so discouraging anymore.

Why not just a pair of 9in. klein pliers and a screw driver?
lectriclee, how exactly do you use these in combination to make the curve in the wire, I'm curious. I'd like to give it a try. Thanks.
 
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Old 04-09-06, 08:24 PM
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If you're using stranded and cannot use lugs or stake-ons, or backwire devices, here is something I learned from an old-timer in the commercial trade.

1. Carefully start your stripper about 1.5" back from the wire end.
2. Cut the insulation and gently tool it toward the end to expose 5/8 or 3/4" or so of copper.
3. DO NOT pull the insulation off the end.
4. Grip the insulation between the exposed copper and the end of the copper and twist, to twist the copper inside.
5. With insulation still over the end of the copper, form a loop, place under screw and tighten screw.
6. Now cut off excess.
 
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Old 04-09-06, 08:32 PM
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If you're using stranded and cannot use lugs or stake-ons, or backwire devices, here is something I learned from an old-timer in the commercial trade.

1. Carefully start your stripper about 1.5" back from the wire end.
2. Cut the insulation and gently tool it toward the end to expose 5/8 or 3/4" or so of copper.
3. DO NOT pull the insulation off the end.
4. Grip the insulation between the exposed copper and the end of the copper and twist, to twist the copper inside.
5. With insulation still over the end of the copper, form a loop, place under screw and tighten screw.
6. Now cut off excess.

now that one trick i done that but this trick it far even better

follow the first step as above then do second step as above but pull little more [ i will expain next step ]

next step this will work the best with stranded wires twist them counterclockwork [ backward ]

i know it will confused some of ya the the reason why i say backward twist because after twisted backward then make a loop like a hook in clockwise direction then put it on the device screw and tighten down what it doing is pulling the strand to make it more tighter just like soild wires is

then trim off the excess wires as need to.

i know it will take little more time but it work really slick

Merci , Marc
 
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Old 04-10-06, 08:07 PM
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*how exactly do you use these in combination to make the curve in the wire, I'm curious. I'd like to give it a try.*

You strip the outer jacket first. Then take your pliers and score the outer jacket of the conductor. Place your left thumb on the pivot point of pliers, right thumb above that.and with gentile pressure on the right hand,pivot off the insulation.
(based on you being a righty)

Then grab the end of the conductor with the tip of the pliers, and bend into a "hook".

Wrap around the screw (in a clock wise direction) on the receptical/switch and tighten.( with the screw driver)

Our trade is technical..... But it's not rocket science.

Some may (WILL,MUST) disagree, but after 20 years I am firm in stating that it is 40% mechanical & 60% technical.

Like DAD said, "don't mess with stuff smarter than you".

#next step this will work the best with stranded wires twist them counterclockwork [ backward ] #


French277--

You'r right this works every time.

But I beleive you also would recomend the crimp on (stak-on) connectors.

*
 
  #18  
Old 04-10-06, 08:37 PM
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But I beleive you also would recomend the crimp on (stak-on) connectors.
yep that will work as well as long i have room behind the devices.

that is fine with deep well boxes with shallow boxes this where i hate the most because some people like to buy too small a box and found out it dont fit what they useally do is snipe the wire so [ beeped ] close to the box like 2 or 3 inch that why i always buy deep well box much as i can.


Merci , Marc
 
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