GFCI breaker with 3-wire?

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Old 04-13-06, 07:21 PM
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GFCI breaker with 3-wire?

I'm wiring a hot tub which requires a 3-wire connection, but the GFCI breaker is set up for a 4-wire connection. If I just don't connect the fourth (white) wire, will the GFCI circuit still work? If not, how do I do this?
 
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Old 04-13-06, 08:03 PM
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For a tub requiring a straight 240v circuit, you must still attach the white from the breaker to the neutral bar in the panel. You do not attach anything to the load white of the breaker.
Grounding stays the same.
 
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Old 04-13-06, 08:05 PM
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Talking found an answer

Based on what happened when I tried this and the responses below, pay no attention to what "George" says below!

I found the following conversation in another forum that answered my question. Posting it here in case it helps someone else.

Rocky: When you need to wire a 3-wire 240V 50A with ground to a 4-wire GFCI? How can you achieve this hook-up without the neutral at the hot tub? Are these Hot Tubs legal to use anymore? If legal, how can you wire it to make it safe for use?

Apparently THIS guy is WRONG... George: Either run 3 wires fromt he GFCI to the spa, or ground the neutral at the spa end and the GFCI end. Capping the wires could lead to potential nuisanse tripping down the road.

John: 4 wire GFCI's do not exist. A 240 volt, 50 amp GFCI breaker has three connection points (2 hots and a neutral). Some hot tubs do not use a neutral (the bigger Sundance and Jacuzzi tubs come to mind). If you don't need a neutral at the hot tub, don't connect anything to the neutral terminal. Be sure that you do connect the little white pigtail on the breaker to the neutral/ground buss bar. You must still run a proper ground out to the hot tub. Do not connect this to the breaker. Also, do not ground the load neutral as the other post suggested. That is a guaranteed way to trip the GFCI.

Mike: As a licensed electrician John's advice on how to connect the spa is correct, George's advice is incorrect and also illegal. Neutral's are never grounded again (even in sub panels) after their initial time at the service entrance to the house.

Here he is again... George: You would run the pigtail from the nuetral bar to the GFCI. From the GFCI, there would not be a need for a neutral. The load neutral wire that would normally go from the GFCI to the spa is not needed. If you cap that wire at both ends, then you could potentially get intermittent tripping. Grounding that wire at both ends will not make the GFCI trip at all.

John: George, if a load neutral is not required by the spa, then he should not run a neutral wire at all between the GFCI and the hot tub.

And one more time... George: Exactly, there should be only 3 wires, two hots and a ground. There SHOULD NOT be an extra wire that the electrician has to find a place for. When the electrician does run that extra 4th wire for some reason, then they have to do something with it. The problem arises when that extra wire is just capped at one or both ends. Hopefully the electrician will spec out the job and use the correct wire rather than have to deal with an extra wire.

John: OK, we are all on the same page now. I think I just misunderstood what you were saying before.

SpaManiac: I ran the neutral although I did not need it. It is connected at the panel and in the spa panel capped and taped. No problems to date.
 

Last edited by dricard; 04-14-06 at 03:59 AM.
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Old 04-13-06, 08:08 PM
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Thanks, Petey!

Thanks for your speedy response!
 
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Old 04-13-06, 08:32 PM
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I love stuborn postings like George's. This guy should NOT be posting to electrical forums.


There SHOULD NOT be an extra wire that the electrician has to find a place for. When the electrician does run that extra 4th wire for some reason, then they have to do something with it. The problem arises when that extra wire is just capped at one or both ends.
This is so wrong it's almost funny.
"......has to find a place for."
"...then they have to do something with it."

Who says?!?

All the other replies are correct. George is flat wrong!
 
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Old 04-14-06, 12:22 AM
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Originally Posted by dricard
George: ... ground the neutral at the spa end and the GFCI end...
WHAT !?!?!
 
 

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