residential pricing

Reply

  #1  
Old 04-15-06, 08:24 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 749
residential pricing

based on a previous thread, I'd like to pose a question to the group concerning residential pricing, since it is clear there is a discrepancy between regions, contractors, etc.

What would your price be on, let's say, installation of a new 200A service panel, including pulling 15 homerun circuits into an attic space 30 feet from the panel?

Of course this will be very general, but I think it would be a good discussion to hear from some pros from THIS site.
 
Sponsored Links
  #2  
Old 04-16-06, 04:02 AM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,455
Just a panel, or a service change/upgrade?
Mast or simple riser?
How far does the water bond need to go?
Very rocky soil or sandy/loamy?

What kind of homeruns???
12/2, 12/3, 14/2, 10/4??
Are the walls open or sheetrocked up?




A VERY general number, for a basic 200a service upgrade, plus 15- 12/3 homeruns to the attic (15 is A LOT!).....I'd say about $2000-$2200.
 
  #3  
Old 04-16-06, 06:00 AM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 35
I agree with Speedy, the are too many variables missing from the equation, maybe you could be more specific, and include where in the country the work is..


Dnk...
 
  #4  
Old 04-16-06, 06:13 AM
itsunclebill's Avatar
Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Denver, CO area
Posts: 221
Are we:
1) Replacing an existing 200 AMP panel or upgrading the entire service?

2) Is the panel mounted inside or out? If inside, how far from the meter?

3) Is the panel located in/on the garage? In/on the house? Gable end or under soffit? Single or multi-story? Windows close to weatherhead location?

4) Is a disconnect required at the meter? Fed overhead, underground?

5) Are we installing a CH type CH or BR, SQ-D QO or Homeline, Siemens, GE?

6) Does the local AHJ require AFCIs and/or GFCIs be installed when a panel is replaced?

7) 1 or 2 ground rods required?

8) Are range/oven-cooktop and dryer homeruns included?

I'd be inclined to agree wity Petey for a generic price, trouble is there are darn few generic installations.

A panel change can be part of a day's work for one guy or a long day for 2 people, way too many variables. I won't even quote over the phone for planning numbers because there are too many surprises.
 
  #5  
Old 04-16-06, 08:33 AM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 749
It was more of a general question. I'm in the Bay Area, CA. It's a replacement of an exsiting 60A fused panel. The panel will be inside the garage.

I was refering to 15 12/2 homeruns, but couldn't I also use some 12/3 and split those circuits to save room?

And that's exactly what the electrician quoted me (he actually came on and looked, because this job will be contracted). He said between 1800 and 2000.

This was just an example though. I'd like to hear more about what service calls, troubleshooting, etc cost. Of course this is very general, but I'm sure you guys have some ideas about what to charge for simple stuff.
 
  #6  
Old 04-17-06, 01:48 PM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: N. Illinois
Posts: 2
Generalities are nearly useless

In general I need to charge more for a service call far away than one that is close. I need to charge more for a very complex and difficult-to-install service than one that is simple and easy. In general I need to charge more for a service with conduit than flexible wiring methods. In general I need to charge more for a Square D QO panel and breakers than Homeline. In general a contractor will need to charge more if he lives in an expensive area than an inexpensive one. In general if the service is installed in an area that requires AFCIs and smoke alarms, the contractor will need to charge more for that.

These variables can easily change the price of the project by $5,000 or more, making generalities nearly useless.

Dave
 
  #7  
Old 04-17-06, 04:13 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 749
Originally Posted by Tiger
In general I need to charge more for a service call far away than one that is close. I need to charge more for a very complex and difficult-to-install service than one that is simple and easy. In general I need to charge more for a service with conduit than flexible wiring methods. In general I need to charge more for a Square D QO panel and breakers than Homeline. In general a contractor will need to charge more if he lives in an expensive area than an inexpensive one. In general if the service is installed in an area that requires AFCIs and smoke alarms, the contractor will need to charge more for that.

These variables can easily change the price of the project by $5,000 or more, making generalities nearly useless.

Dave
Ok Dave, let's try it another way..

I call you up and tell you that I"ve lost power to a receptacle, non GFCI/AFCI. Plain old duplex receptacle. I have no idea what the problem is, and I don't know enough to remove the faceplate even. So you're going to have to come out to diagnose the estimate and give me a quote.

Now let's say that the actual problem is nothing more than a bad receptacle. No loose neutral, nicked wire, short, etc. Nothing. Just a bad receptacle. You replace said receptacle, and do nothing else.

So from the minute I call you to the minute you leave my house after the work is done...how much $$$?

Let's just say it's in the area you live in, not where I may live.
 
  #8  
Old 04-17-06, 04:21 PM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,455
If I may give an answer.
For me, I would give no quote, just my T&M rates. I would not give an estimate for troubleshooting.

As long as the job is within my general working area; $75.00 minimum.
 
  #9  
Old 04-17-06, 04:23 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 749
thanks speedy. So that's $75 hour, and does that include travel time to/from? I assume you'd have something that simple on your truck, and it wouldn't take more than an hour...?
 
  #10  
Old 04-17-06, 04:40 PM
Speedy Petey's Avatar
Banned. Rule And/Or Policy Violation
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 2,455
That's my service call rate and is for the first half hour. Then $55/hr, another $30 for a helper.
 
  #11  
Old 04-18-06, 11:28 AM
Member
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 6
I call you up and tell you that I"ve lost power to a receptacle, non GFCI/AFCI. Plain old duplex receptacle. I have no idea what the problem is, and I don't know enough to remove the faceplate even. So you're going to have to come out to diagnose the estimate and give me a quote.
For the above job I charge a $29 dispatch fee to come out.
I would then inspect your entire electrical system looking for things such as GFCI receptacles installed where required, missing cover plates, overlamped light fixtures, signs of overloaded ciruits etc.
I would also remove the panel cover and check for loose connections and overheating. All this is covered in the $29 dispatch fee.

I would write up a full report of everything I found with the prices for any repairs or suggestions. I would also include the price for diagnosis of the problem you called me out for. This would be based on factors such as condition of the wiring, how accessible the receptacle is. Is it behind a entertainment center that will have to be moved? etc. The job you describe sounds to me like it would be a diagnostic fee of $89. When I quote a diagnostic fee it will not increase no matter how long it takes me to diagnose the problem. So if I'm a lousy troubleshooter and it takes me 3-hours to determine it's a bad receptacle then it's still $89. If it takes me 5 minutes to determine this it's still $89. This would include minor repairs such as tightening a loose connection. If it turned out to be just a loose connection the total for this call would come to $89 + $29 = $118 unless you wanted additional work listed on the report done.

If the receptacle turned out to be bad it would be an additional $23 to replace it. This would bring the total to $141

Why do we inspect your entire electrical system?
It benefits us and our customer.
How would you feel if we came out and just looked at the receptacle you called about, replaced it and two days later you lost power to other receptacles in your home because of a loose connection in your electrical panel? Would you rather that we found and tightened this connection while there or come back and charge to diagnose and repair this? You may even feel that we were somehow responsible for this problem even though we never took the panel cover off.

I heard a story from a plumber who said after he installed a toilet in a cutomer's home they insisted that he broke their TV. The tv was working before he installed the toilet now it isn't. He went out pushed the on button on the tv and the tv came on. The customer picked up his remote and tried it and nothing happened. Put new batteries in the remote and everything was fine.

Customer Benefits:
  • They'll know the condition of their electrical system and how safe it is.
    They can save money by having additional work or repairs done while we are there.

Contractor Benefits:
  • Increases our sales.
    Increases our productive time & decreases nonbillable hours.
    Increases customer satisfaction when we can tighten a loose connection in the panel during the inspection and save them from a future service call to have someone come out when they've lost power to another circuit.

Keep in mind, that even after you've signed the invoice and we have left, this job is still not completed. We have to process the invoice in the office & take the check to the bank to be deposited. We have to pay someone to do this because so far I haven't found anyone willing to do this for free.

We try to earn a net profit of 10%. So for the $118 the net profit for the company would be $11.80.

My prices come out of my standardized price book based on my costs of doing business. This is my insurance to my customer's that I don't make up prices as I go along based on what they drive or how much money I think they have. Everyone pays the same price. Can this system be abused? You bet. So can any system for that matter. I give you the price upfront in writing before doing any work. If you're not happy with the price you can decline. But please don't smack me.

I don't make claims that the materials I use are better than the materials you can purchase yourself. I do use better quality materials then others may use. For example I don't use the cheap 45 cent receptacles but use a higher quality spec grade receptacle. Yes you can buy these too. Yes I mark up materials. Its included in my upfront price.

Keep in mind I'm a new contractor just starting my business and my prices are probably too low. I'm sure they will be going up when I compare my actual overhead expenses with my budgeted overhead expenses. It's suprising how much it costs to operate a business. You'd never be able to imagine the costs unless you've done it.

I don't drive a nice sports car.
I live in a 2800 sq. ft. home appraised at approx. 200k.
I don't have a power boat.
I drive 1986 Nissan pickup truck with 190k miles on it.
My wife drives a 2001 minivan.
I'm not the most expensive electrician even though I have a full page ad in the phone book.
Could you imagine if no one advertised in the phone book? What would you do if you just moved to a new area and your plumbing sprung a leak in the middle of the night? Who would you call? Do you think they would be able to give out phone books for free?
 

Last edited by A-Line; 04-18-06 at 11:41 AM.
  #12  
Old 04-18-06, 12:26 PM
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: San Francisco, CA
Posts: 749
Thank you A-Line for a very well though and detailed 'estimate'.

I think that is very reasonable.
 
Reply

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread
Display Modes
'