Adding new outlet to existing circuit

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  #1  
Old 04-20-06, 06:34 PM
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Adding new outlet to existing circuit

I would like to add an additional outlet to an existing circuit for under-cabinet lighting. There is an existing outlet nearby that I plan to use for the microwave as shown in this photo:

http://www.netspark.com/128_2888.jpg

and I was hoping to add a new outlet to this same circuit. There is 14-3 guage wire coming into this outlet from the top and 14-2 from the bottom. I turned off the 20A breaker and the oulet no longer is live, but the wire from the 14-2 is still hot (using a tester), which didn't make sense to me. At first I assumed the 14-3 runs back to the breaker and the 14-2 goes to another outlet, but since the 14-2 is still hot even after turning off the breaker, I'm not sure what my situation is. This outlet was previously used for my refrigerator and now I plan to use it for the microwave.

Does anyone have any advice for adding a new outlet to this circuit? Should it go on the 14-3 side or the 14-2 side? Or is this not a good place to try to add the outlet?

Thanks!!
 
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  #2  
Old 04-20-06, 06:49 PM
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ok ,, the photo worth a thousand words here lol anyway,,

ok as far you know the mircowave oven genrally required it own circuit to run this properly

I turned off the 20A breaker and the oulet no longer is live, but the wire from the 14-2 is still hot (using a tester), which didn't make sense to me.

>> ok if you see the 12-3 wire comming in the box you may have two [2] breaker to handle this circuits

what kind of tester ya been using the non concat tester ? if so sometime they will give you false reading on it

but one question are you sure that is 14-3 ?? did you see the marking on the cable see what wire size it will say ??

i know genrally the kitchen circuits are wired with 12 gauge size with 20 amp breaker there.

if you add new repectalie it have to be gfci on SA circuit[ small appilance ] you might want to leave the microwave circuit alone

if need more question feel free to post it here .

Merci , Marc
 
  #3  
Old 04-20-06, 07:05 PM
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First problem you have is #14 wire on a 20 amp circuit. It should be a 15 amp circuit. Are you sure it is #14 wire?
If this receptacle serves the counter you can't put lighting on it. You can't put the refrigerator on it either. Small appliance counter circuits can only serve the counter.
 
  #4  
Old 04-20-06, 07:15 PM
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I looked again and I see a faint 12-3 on the top wire, so disregard most of what I said before! The bottom is probably a 12-2? This outlet was previously used for my refrigerator but I've rearranged my kitchen and I was planning to plug the microwave there now. Is it typical for an outlet to have 2 breakers?
 
  #5  
Old 04-20-06, 07:43 PM
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You have a multi wire circuit. The single 20 amp receptacle in the picture is dedicated. It was for the refrigerator, but you can go ahead and use it for the microwave.

A multi wire circuit will be fed with 12-3 wire from the panel and have two circuit breakers.

I recommend that you NOT attempt to do anything from this receptacle. I say this since you apparently do not understand multi wire circuits, which are very easy to mess up.

joeds advice is not quite accurate. You are allowed to place the refrigerator on one of the small appliance circuits, but I recommend against it. I recommend a dedicated circuit for the refrigerator, just like there was.

If your under cabinet lights are plug in, then you can plug them in to one of the small appliance circuits. What you cannot do is to hardwire ANY lights to one of these circuits.

If this is a counter top microwave and if the directions do not specify a dedicated circuit, and if the under cabinet lights are plug in and if you don't mind plugging them in at the microwave, you could get away with converting this simplex receptacle to a duplex. However, those are a lot of "ifs" and it would still be better have a dedicated circuit for the microwave.

Bottom line:

I recommend a dedicated circuit for your refrigerator (wherever you move it) and for your microwave. I then recommend at least two additional small appliance circuits (more if a large kitchen, and more is better even for a small kitchen). Finally, Find a different circuit for the lights , or run a new one for them.
 
  #6  
Old 04-20-06, 08:54 PM
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Actually the refrigerator is moving where the microwave was and the microwave is moving where the refrigerator was. It looks like they each had their own circuit so I might be OK there. It sounds like I should take your advice and find another circuit to add the additional outlet.
Thanks so much for the help.
 
  #7  
Old 04-21-06, 09:31 PM
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If I wanted to move the outlet that was mentioned in this thread up about 12" and there is no slack in the lower wire, is there a good solution for this? Just wondering?
 
  #8  
Old 04-21-06, 10:35 PM
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Either remove the cable all the way back to the preceding box and replace it a longer piece, or add the new and connect to the old box to extend it's wires. If you do the latter, you may not conceal the old box.
 
  #9  
Old 04-22-06, 09:27 AM
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Gator, one thing to be sure of as you remodel your kitchen: Beware of the steel studs. You need to protect any holes you make for the romex with a bushing, so they don't cut into your cable and become energized.

Are you just adding one undercabinet light next to the microwave, or were you planning on using some sort of daisy-chaining undercabinet lighting system? (They come in modules, so you can link up a certain amount together.)

I just notice you're talking about adding "an" outlet. I was curious what your overall plan was for your kitchen in this regard.
 
  #10  
Old 04-22-06, 10:01 AM
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Originally Posted by joed
If this receptacle serves the counter you can't put lighting on it.
I Agree
You can't put the refrigerator on it either. Small appliance counter circuits can only serve the counter.
Read this from the code:
(3) Kitchen Receptacle Requirements. Receptacles installed in a kitchen to serve countertop surfaces shall be supplied by not fewer than two small-appliance branch circuits, either or both of which shall also be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the same kitchen and in other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). Additional small-appliance branch circuits shall be permitted to supply receptacle outlets in the kitchen and other rooms specified in 210.52(B)(1). No smallappliance branch circuit shall serve more than one kitchen.
 
  #11  
Old 04-22-06, 10:59 AM
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You are allowed to plug anything you want into a small appliance circuit serving the counter, that means not only small appliances, but also under cabinet lights.

Exception 3 under 550.12B allows a single receptacle for refrigeration equipment on a small appliance circuit.
 
  #12  
Old 04-22-06, 11:10 AM
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yes racraft. I was refering to hard wired lighting.

250.52 covers the refigerator or any other outlet in the kitchen dining room breakfast nook or pantry. They may be on the two or more small appliance branch circuits.
 
  #13  
Old 04-22-06, 06:46 PM
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Well I got mixed up on the refrigerator circuit. I Ontario the refrigerator must be a dedicated circuit.
 
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