Wrong wire used

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  #1  
Old 05-31-06, 01:58 PM
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Wrong wire used

Ok i think i used the wrong wire to hook up my ceiling fan in the garage 2-3 years ago the wire i used was type UF-B 12/2 OUTDOOR ELECTRICAL WIRE WITH GROUND rated at 600 Volts the box says exterior wiring for wet locations copper conductors pvc insulation 600 volts now i know i need to wire nut it but did not know at the time so i will pick those up this weekend is this wire ok if not i will replace it i grabed it at the time because it was the cheapest its worked fine for the 2-3 years so is this wire ok.

http://www.coolimagehosting.com/uploads/ce1f8f370b.jpg

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Old 05-31-06, 03:02 PM
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Boy, your posts are still very hard to read. Please use punctuation and caps.

The wire is fine but that box is NOT!

1) You need connectors or clamps on that NM cable.
2) You MUST use an approved fan box to hang a fan from.
 
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Old 05-31-06, 03:36 PM
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I know the wire needs to be capped with wire nuts(now) so I will pick those up this weekend. The guy at ACO HARDWARE said the box can support a ceiling fan if its mounted to a stude. So I used 2 extra screws to hold it for extra support the fan is only about 10 LBS. So if i get the wire nuts is everything OK. Its ran fine for about 2-3 years. When I went to buy the ceiling fan I got an extra box to hold it cause I figured that the old box would not hold. So thats what the fan hangs on.


P.S is this better to read.
 
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Old 05-31-06, 03:53 PM
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So you are saying the fan is not mounted on that open box?

If this is so, not only do you need the wire nuts and nm connectors, you need a blank cover for the box and you need to attach the wire leaving that box going to the fan. Actually it looks like all the wires need to be attached to something but can;t tell for sure in the pic.
 
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Old 05-31-06, 05:02 PM
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Lex, after whatever you just said, I hope the "guy" in the hardware store sold you are "real" fan box. It is not a regular box anymore to which we hang fans. I don't care if it was up there for 10 years.

<img src="http://s7ondemand1.scene7.com/is/servlet/izoom/DoItYourself/6741839?wid=200&hei=200&fmt=jpeg&qlt=75,0&op_sharpen=1&resMode=trilin&op_usm=0.0,0.0,0,0&iccEmbed=0">
 
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Old 05-31-06, 05:22 PM
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The big diffrence between standard box and ceiling fan boxes is the screw size and the standard box genrally use 6-32 screws.

The real ceiling fan box will have much larger screw useally either 8-32 or 10-24 or 10-32 screws they are much bigger and they will hold pretty good weight as LONG the box is propely mounted to the stud like lag bolts.

Do not ever use the drywall screws they are too light and they will break over the time or come loose like a nails .

I did see the photos and i will agree with speedypete on his comments about the box and you need romax clamps and propely staple the wires so you don't have loose wire hanging around for safety reason.

Merci, Marc
 
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Old 05-31-06, 05:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Speedy Petey
Lex, after whatever you just said, I hope the "guy" in the hardware store sold you are "real" fan box. It is not a regular box anymore to which we hang fans. I don't care if it was up there for 10 years.

<img src="http://s7ondemand1.scene7.com/is/servlet/izoom/DoItYourself/6741839?wid=200&hei=200&fmt=jpeg&qlt=75,0&op_sharpen=1&resMode=trilin&op_usm=0.0,0.0,0,0&iccEmbed=0">
How do you do that with the image in the post?

Sorry abouth the hijack, just haven't seen anybody do that here before.
 
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Old 05-31-06, 06:45 PM
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HTML, because the [IMG] code is turned off. See the "posting rules" at the bottom of this page.

(img src="http://web URL of image.com")
Just replace ( & ) with < & >


HTML tutorial
 
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Old 05-31-06, 07:34 PM
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There are bent nails coming out of the rafters. The wire is resting on those to keep it up and not dangle. I had a staple gun but lost it. And like I said I now Know that I need to wire nut the wires and put a metal cover plate over it. I used the screws that came with the box (came with 2) and 2 sheet metal screws to hold it up. The wire is in no danger of being grabed by the moving blades (the fan was on when I took The picture you just can't tell. Also i can't mount the Box to a stude the stude its on is a foot higher than the rafters. if a put the fan any lower it will hit my head.


Originally Posted by nap
So you are saying the fan is not mounted on that open box?

If this is so, not only do you need the wire nuts and nm connectors, you need a blank cover for the box and you need to attach the wire leaving that box going to the fan. Actually it looks like all the wires need to be attached to something but can;t tell for sure in the pic.
 
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Old 05-31-06, 07:40 PM
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Originally Posted by lexmarks567
There are bent nails coming out of the rafters. The wire is resting on those to keep it up and not dangle. I had a staple gun but lost it. And like I said I now Know that I need to wire nut the wires and put a metal cover plate over it. I used the screws that came with the box (came with 2) and 2 sheet metal screws to hold it up. The wire is in no danger of being grabed by the moving blades (the fan was on when I took The picture you just can't tell. Also i can't mount the Box to a stude the stude its on is a foot higher than the rafters. if a put the fan any lower it will hit my head.
Were just trying to help you do it right. How you actually do it is up to you.
 
  #11  
Old 05-31-06, 08:17 PM
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The big difference between standard box and ceiling fan boxes is the screw size and the standard box generally use 6-32 screws.

The real ceiling fan box will have much larger screw useally either 8-32 or 10-24 or 10-32 screws they
Sorry for another hijack but could you clarify. Not an expert but the only boxes I have seen with 6-32 were "switch" boxes. Every octagon round ceiling box I have seen in the last 45 years has been at least 8-32. Occasionally I have seen a single gang rectangular "switch" box (6-32) used for a light but I always thought that was ignorance not standard practice.
 

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  #12  
Old 05-31-06, 08:27 PM
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sure i will clear up some goof here most octangle box genrally have 8-32 screws but with ceiling fan box [ the real kind ] will either have 8-32 or 10-24 screw on the tab where the screw go in

you have to look around a little to see the diffrence between the convetail octangle box compared to the real ceiling fan rated box you can tell by construction itself it alot more stiffer and useally hevier by weight and have few extra items what reg box dont have

there is few manufacter do make ceiling fan rated box you will see the stamping on bottom of the box say " approved for ceiling fan " or simuair to like that


Merci , Marc
 
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Old 05-31-06, 09:12 PM
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OK let me get this straght so i know what to do this weekend.

1. I need to wire nut the wires together?

2. I need to put a metal cover on the box to hide the conection?

The box is fine right? there was a bin full of them and it was about 2 dollars and came with 2 screws atached to the box. Those screws along with 2 sheet metal screws hold the box up the fan is atached with the hardware that came with it a hugger type cause it looks like its hugging the cealing. the fan was on sale for $19.99 at Kmart.
 
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Old 05-31-06, 09:30 PM
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1. I need to wire nut the wires together?
yes always wirenutted them to prevent any connection come loose


2. I need to put a metal cover on the box to hide the conection?
yes it will be good idea to do cover any open boxes up not only look better and it will protect the wire better this way

Merci , Marc
 
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Old 05-31-06, 09:32 PM
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OK I will get the parts this weekend and show the after work.
 
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Old 05-31-06, 10:07 PM
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2-3 years with out wire nuts !!!! Are you "NUTS"?

"IF you can't hear it before you see it whats the point"
This is the scary part of electricity... You can't hear,taste,see or smell it......... Untill it's too late !!!!!!!!!

(loud pipes do save lives)
 
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Old 05-31-06, 10:26 PM
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"OK I will get the parts this weekend and show the after work"

Cool I can't wait too see it, In fact post some pictures in a year or 2 when either the fan falls down , or the wire comes unhooked from those fancy bent nails you used and gets tangled in the blades with a nice spark shower on your mattress.

Why do you post for help and then ignore what everyone is telling you ?
 
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Old 05-31-06, 11:47 PM
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ok since i need a new box would these work

http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...hId=5636628738


http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...hId=5636629305

and heres a picture of the box that holds the fan and the nails holding the wire

http://www.coolimagehosting.com/uploads/60a5dd9ec5.jpg

http://www.coolimagehosting.com/uploads/2b0936081c.jpg
 

Last edited by lexmarks567; 06-01-06 at 04:49 AM.
  #19  
Old 06-01-06, 04:31 AM
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Either of those two boxes look fine. Buy staples designed to hold electrical wire, I prefer the type with two small nails. Also, get a cable clamp for the first junction box (the new fan box will probably have one included). Its a small fitting that goes in the punchout hole of a metal box to secure the cable and prevent it from rubbing on the punchout hole.

good luck.
 
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Old 06-01-06, 04:35 AM
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lexmarks567

Please tone down your questions/replies or I will close the thread. There is no need to yell.

Using UF cable inside is allowed. It's harder to work with than NM (in some ways), but it is allowed.

When cables enter/leave a junction box, they need to be clamped. Some boxes have clamps built in and others need to have connectors added. The box you have in the ceiling would need connectors added.

Using nails to hold up the cable is wrong and dangerous. The cable should be attached with staples designed for this purpose. There are also rules about proper spacing of the staples which must be followed.

The open junction box needs a cover. The wires need to be connected with wire nuts. The metal box needs to be grounded with the ground wire.

The box supporting the fan may or may not be correct. It's not visible, so we can't be sure. Fans are heavy and the vibration takes it's toll. That's why they came up with special electrical boxes for them. If you use the wrong type or install the correct type improperly, it will eventually give out, causing the fan to fall.

Do not get your advice from the guys at the hardware store. Sometimes they are right, sometimes they are wrong.
 
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Old 06-01-06, 04:50 AM
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sorry just that im tired of people saying things that are not true just becuse i don't understand somthing and differnt people give me differnt advice so its hard to say whos right and find out whats wrong and whats right
 
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Old 06-01-06, 06:05 AM
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ok i found another box thats made for fans would this also work

http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...archId=1259139

comes with everything and its cheaper
 
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Old 06-01-06, 11:10 AM
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Exclamation You need to do some reading.

Originally Posted by lexmarks567
ok i found another box thats made for fans would this also work

http://www.acehardware.com/product/i...archId=1259139

comes with everything and its cheaper
Any of the boxes that you posted links to are fine for ceiling fan support. The problem is that your photographs show a lack of familiarity with the basic rules of electrical work. I am an electrician by craft but, unlike some of my colleagues, I have no problem with homeowners doing there own wiring as long as they take the time to learn how to do it right. Get a book entitled Wiring Simplified. It is a fairly easy read and will introduce you to the basic concepts of electrical safety and good installation practice. One example of such a principal is that all splices and connections must be made in a suitable box with all openings effectively closed. When a splice fails and arcing occurs the fully covered and effectively closed box makes the difference between the fire officer writing "electrical failure no fire" and "fire of electrical origin" in the incident report. Both incidents will produce enough scary noise and oder to prompt you to call the fire department but while the first will result in radio traffic such as "Engine 21 on the scene of a two story and basement frame dwelling with nothing apparent' the second could generate "Engine 21 on the scene of the two story frame well involved in fire in the attached garage with reports of people trapped." I know which is easier on my nerves as a volunteer firefighter. You are taking substantial risks without necessarily meaning to do so.
 
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Old 06-01-06, 03:44 PM
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Ok got the parts tell me if these are right

1 box of 100 count 1/2 inch NM cable metal staples

3 wire clamps 2 for the old box 1 for the fan box

6 wire nuts 12 total 2 differnt sizes just to be safe

1 metal cover plate

so i will go ahead and make the changes tomorrow it to late today i did not get up untill around 4:30PM
 
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Old 06-01-06, 05:16 PM
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Well, you sound like you have the parts you need. Now you need the knowledge to do this. I second the recommendation for the book Wiring Simplified.

Please, go buy the book. Then read it. Then ask any questions that you still have. Once you get the answers, THEN, and only then, will you be ready to tackle this job.
 
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Old 06-01-06, 05:36 PM
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Lex - After you read the book and figure out how to do the job safely and correctly, take a few minutes to figure out how to do it with a little craftsmanship. Do the job as if your paycheck depended on your workmanship.

If you are going to do any electrical work around the house, let me make a suggestion. Outfit an electrical box ( a cheap plastic tackle box is a good start) with the basics. Put in some wire nuts of various sizes, some electrical tape and staples, some romex connectors, and a good circuit tester or VOM . The last doesn't need to be expensive.
PS - The electrical tape isn't for splicing 14-2.
 
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Old 06-01-06, 05:49 PM
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Is this the right book?


http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/097...lance&n=283155

If so i will see the the liberay has it first. I would have the book for 3 weeks and can renew it if i have to.

Originally Posted by racraft
Well, you sound like you have the parts you need. Now you need the knowledge to do this. I second the recommendation for the book Wiring Simplified.

Please, go buy the book. Then read it. Then ask any questions that you still have. Once you get the answers, THEN, and only then, will you be ready to tackle this job.
 
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Old 06-01-06, 05:56 PM
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Yes, that is the correct book. I suggest that you purchase it. It is available at the bog box stores or from the link you provided. It is a book that you will want to refer to again and again and again.
 
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Old 06-01-06, 06:18 PM
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Unhappy Fine

sigh.......Well i ordered the book was not expecting to spend so much money on what I thought Would be a simple repair . I will go to the libary and see if they have it in the mean time untill my book comes witch will be around the 9th.


Originally Posted by racraft
Yes, that is the correct book. I suggest that you purchase it. It is available at the bog box stores or from the link you provided. It is a book that you will want to refer to again and again and again.
 
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Old 06-02-06, 08:25 AM
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OK
I put Wire nuts on the wire ends, Installed the wire clamps, Fed the wire through the clamps, Tightend them down and put a cover over the opened box. Now all thats left is the staples i'm going to see if the libary has the book you wanted me to have or something like that so i know about the staples. Everything works reinstalled the fuse in the fuse box turned the power on to the garage by the lightswitch and it worked evrything was done correct i will now go find a that book. I ordered it but it won't come till the 9th.
 
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Old 06-02-06, 10:34 AM
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Ok just got back from the Libary they had the 2002 edition so that will have to do for now also got a video on electrical.
 
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Old 06-02-06, 11:31 AM
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ok
Were do I look in the book to figure out were to staple the wires the booklet that came with the video is based on 1981 I know its old thats why I need to look in the book. You say the book Is symple Yeah right. Ok the booklet that came with the video says

" A romex staple must be used within 12 inches from the top of a box and within 8 inchs from the the bottom of the box to secure the cable. Staples must also be used to secure the cable every 4 1/2 feet along a run, unless it is secured by a passing through holes drilled in studs or joists." Now I can't do that theres no way to do that in this garage the rafters were not built like that.I'm about ready to cry Were do I look in the 2002 Book.

P.S you guys happy now.

heres a picture
 
  #33  
Old 06-02-06, 11:38 AM
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The references to 8 inches and 12 inches refer to wire stapled to a stud in a wall.

Run a piece of wood perpendicular between the joist that has the wire stapled to it and the cross piece that the fan is attached to.

Run the cable up the piece of wood and then over to the box where the fan is located, so that the cable is always run along a piece of wood. If you don't have enough cable then use a longer piece. The cable must not be run in the air between the joist and the fan box.
 
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Old 06-02-06, 12:03 PM
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I'm confused Now. The wire comes to from the fan box runs along a wooden beam to the rafter it helps to keep it strait. It then runs along the rafter you see with the nails in it and then hangs in mid air to the box it gets it power from. How do I put a 2x4 there please explane better. Do I move the old box to the new 2x4 that you want me to install your making it harder than what it is.
 
  #35  
Old 06-02-06, 12:13 PM
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The wire cannot run in midair. From your picture I guessed (apparently incorrectly) that there is no connection between the joist the fan is hung from the end the one the wire is visible on.

At any rate run the wire only along joists. Do not run it in midair.

If the wire travels down a wall to a switch, it requires some kind of protection along the wall. Use conduit or put the wire behind wood or something.
 
  #36  
Old 06-02-06, 12:19 PM
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I would not have enough wire to do it way I said in the last post so I came up with another idea What if I move the Old box to right across from the fan box than the wire can run along the beam that the fan is on right to the old box would that work? The wire will have to go up and over the rafter to continue on the fan Beam is this Ok. The fan beam is on top of the rafters So the wire will need to go up 2 inchs(still on wood) to the fan beam to continue and then down 2 inchs to the box. OR I drill a hole into the rafter the one the wire is nailed to and run the wire that way to the box it will always be on wood.
 
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Old 06-02-06, 12:23 PM
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The wire cannot run through the air. As long as it runs along wood you are fine.
 
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Old 06-02-06, 12:26 PM
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Ok I will run the wire The way I said and before I stape or cut the the wire shoter I will post a Picture and then make any adjustments that need to be made.
 
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Old 06-02-06, 12:48 PM
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Ok I beleve this set up will work Now keep in mind both wires will be cut to size to run tight against the wood so the wires will not dangle then the box will be covered up and the wire stapled. the grey wire will run along the beam the fan is on it will go up a 1/2 inch then run along the beam to the box so it won't be in mid air.

 
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Old 06-02-06, 02:06 PM
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Its done heres pictures of it

1. this shows the wire coming from the fan running along the beam stapled to it.



2 shows the plate covering the box and the clamps



3 shows the main wire stapled to the rafters and not hanging.



4 shows the fan is running the blades are turning as you can tell and the fan lights are on



Thanks for all you help.
 

Last edited by lexmarks567; 06-02-06 at 02:26 PM.
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