a few quick questions

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  #1  
Old 07-02-06, 10:13 PM
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a few quick questions

1) Need to run romex in the crawl space. When perpendicular to the floor joists, does code state that I must drill thru the joists or can I fasten directly to the bottom of the joists?

2) In replacing all the K&T in the house, I will be installing new romex to receptacles that are located on perimeter walls. My plan is to cut holes in the drywall near the top of the walls, and drill thru the top plate, fishing the cables up. I've heard different opinions from different electricians on how to attach these cables.
a. pull one cable to each receptacle, then wire nut them all together in a common j-box, or...
b. Run them in series, so two cables in each recep. box. This minimizes connections and seems easier.

I'm thinking b, but what do you think?

3) Pigtailing - My plan is to pigtail all middle-of-the-run neutrals and hots. I know some electricians don't do this but I feel it would be easier to pinpoint a loose neutral/hot without bringing the entire run down.

Thanks all !!
 
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  #2  
Old 07-02-06, 10:34 PM
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Originally Posted by fuente
1) Need to run romex in the crawl space. When perpendicular to the floor joists, does code state that I must drill thru the joists or can I fasten directly to the bottom of the joists?

2) In replacing all the K&T in the house, I will be installing new romex to receptacles that are located on perimeter walls. My plan is to cut holes in the drywall near the top of the walls, and drill thru the top plate, fishing the cables up. I've heard different opinions from different electricians on how to attach these cables.
a. pull one cable to each receptacle, then wire nut them all together in a common j-box, or...
b. Run them in series, so two cables in each recep. box. This minimizes connections and seems easier.

I'm thinking b, but what do you think?

3) Pigtailing - My plan is to pigtail all middle-of-the-run neutrals and hots. I know some electricians don't do this but I feel it would be easier to pinpoint a loose neutral/hot without bringing the entire run down.

Thanks all !!


1) in a crawl space,And not readably accesable to inhabitants, and not exposed to the eliments, This would not be a problem (the wires are not to be used as clothes dryers you know).To be safe ask the AHJ, To be safer, Nail a 1x6 across the joists and everyone is happy.(known as a "running board")

2)If you can snake from 1 device to the next, thats great (my preferance). The more splices, the more chances of failure (risk mgmt).

3) Not sure what your asking, I'm aware of "pigtailing" but am not sure of the question. Do it right. Alot of things are easy, but when you have to do them 2 or 3 times to get it right, that bites, wastes time money and energy, do it right the 1st time.

4) USE the SCREWS on the devices. Don't be lazy.
 
  #3  
Old 07-02-06, 11:44 PM
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maybe I wasn't clear.

When two cables come into a box, instead of screwing both hots and neutrals to the receptacle (top and bottom of course), I would combine the hots with a third wire - pigtail, and connect that to the receptacle. Same for the neutrals.

I'm not sure what you mean about 'use the screws on the devices'. No backstabbing here.

Hopefully I explained myself - I may be using the wrong terminology, but hopefully it makes more sense.

Thanks.
 
  #4  
Old 07-03-06, 03:32 AM
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3) pigtail is fine, no need to unless it's a 2ckt 3 wire.
 
  #5  
Old 07-03-06, 06:28 AM
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Remember that for most rooms you need either a switch controlled light, or a switch controlled receptacle. For bedrooms I prefer a ceiling light and a fan. Even if you don't install a fan you should wire for one.

If you don;t install a light then you need a switch controlled receptacle. Since you may, at some point to rearrange the room, picking the receptacle to be controlled may not be easy. You may want to either use 3 conductor (plus ground cable) so that you can make changes later on if you want to.

The wiring to a central junction box from each receptacle makes sense if you only use two conductor *plus ground) cable. Then you can change which receptacle is switched at the central junction box.

Don't forget proper spacing of the receptacles. This often means more than were originally installed.
 
  #6  
Old 07-03-06, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by lectriclee
3) pigtail is fine, no need to unless it's a 2ckt 3 wire.
you're referring to a shared neutral here, right?

Also, I"m unclear why it would not be needed if using 2 conductor wire also. Seems if one of the neutrals got loose from the receptacle, then without pigtailing then everything downstream would be affected. Pigtailing would only affect the one receptacle. Easier to troubleshoot and easier as far as power loss goes.
 
  #7  
Old 07-03-06, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by racraft
Remember that for most rooms you need either a switch controlled light, or a switch controlled receptacle. For bedrooms I prefer a ceiling light and a fan. Even if you don't install a fan you should wire for one.

If you don;t install a light then you need a switch controlled receptacle. Since you may, at some point to rearrange the room, picking the receptacle to be controlled may not be easy. You may want to either use 3 conductor (plus ground cable) so that you can make changes later on if you want to.

The wiring to a central junction box from each receptacle makes sense if you only use two conductor *plus ground) cable. Then you can change which receptacle is switched at the central junction box.

Don't forget proper spacing of the receptacles. This often means more than were originally installed.
I planned on everything you said..except the possibility of a future switched receptacle. Will take that into consideration when I draw up the final plans.

Thanks !
 
  #8  
Old 07-03-06, 10:07 AM
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I see no advantage to pigtailing when not necessary.

With pigtailing you have two possible connections that could fail instead of one. You have the wire nut connection and the connection to the receptacle.

If the connections are done properly, neither will fail. However, I see the possibility of the wire nut connection failing to be greater than that of the screw terminal connection failing, especially when done by do-it-yourselfers. If the wire nut connection fails, it could take out the only receptacle in question, OR the receptacle in question and all down stream receptacles, OR the downstream receptacles only.
 
  #9  
Old 07-03-06, 10:11 AM
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Originally Posted by racraft
I see no advantage to pigtailing when not necessary.

With pigtailing you have two possible connections that could fail instead of one. You have the wire nut connection and the connection to the receptacle.

If the connections are done properly, neither will fail. However, I see the possibility of the wire nut connection failing to be greater than that of the screw terminal connection failing, especially when done by do-it-yourselfers. If the wire nut connection fails, it could take out the only receptacle in question, OR the receptacle in question and all down stream receptacles, OR the downstream receptacles only.
Good point. Thanks. I'll do it the standard way. Actually, if I go the route of connecting each recep to a common J-box, then the point is mute anyway.

Thanks again.
 
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Old 07-03-06, 08:35 PM
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Instead of junction boxes (as noted give you more potential of failure), Why not spend the extra cake (minimul, plus you save on the price of wire nuts,boxes, covers and labor) now, and do the outlets with the 14/3 (15 Amp ckt only)? Now you have what you want/need.
In the future you can do what your heart desires.

It's YOUR HOME, Do what you must NOW! Better to have it and not need it, than to need it and not have it !!!!
Does this make sence? Practical & Logical I hope.
 
  #11  
Old 07-03-06, 08:48 PM
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I can understand running 14/3 (or 12/3) to the receptacles for future use, but how exactly do I save on j-boxes and wire nuts? I might as well do it right, right? The right way to do it would be to route them to a common j-box. It does me no good to connect them in series, because if I ever wanted to switch and outlet, it would be a pain in the ass to get to cable to tap.
 
  #12  
Old 07-03-06, 09:16 PM
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Originally Posted by fuente
I can understand running 14/3 (or 12/3) to the receptacles for future use, but how exactly do I save on j-boxes and wire nuts? I might as well do it right, right? The right way to do it would be to route them to a common j-box. It does me no good to connect them in series, because if I ever wanted to switch and outlet, it would be a pain in the ass to get to cable to tap.

1st off,
Any old work project is a pain in the #@@. Thats half the fun of them.
Why would you run 12/2-12/3 etc. if you are working off of a 15 amp ckt (don't waste your money)?
IF you run from every outlet/receptical to a box in the attic, now you must splice them, correct? The more splices, the more chances of a failure (basic logic). If you run them from receptical to receptical, they will be terminated there anyway. Does that make sense?
So add the 3-wire NOW!! then when you want to switch something later, It won't be such a pain in the ##@, the conductors will be there waiting for you.
( I despise sensor ship)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Additionaly, your home wireing is PARALLEL, NEVER should it be in SERIES! .
 
  #13  
Old 07-03-06, 10:18 PM
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I would run 12/3 if it was 20A, 14/3 for 15A. You're right, and with the cost of copper, a huge waste of money.

I see your points. Makes sense. I probably will run from one box to another and not to a common j-box for the reasons you suggested. And pull 3-conductor wire.

Thanks.
 
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